EU citizen in Ireland

MobileState

Hi all,

I have been living in Ireland for the last 4 years. My wife and our son are here, they are not EU citizens and they have permit to stay in Ireland for the next 5 years.

Me and my wife are working and son is going to school.

Soon, my passport will expire, and I was just wondering what might happen in case that I can't renew my passport, or if embassy for any reason doesn't want to issue me a new passport?

Do we need to leave Ireland or we can find a way how to stay here?

breatheme

An embassy refusing a citizen a passport is pretty unheard of. (Unless it's some sort of "military service" caveat, or whatnot) Why do you believe your home country may not issue you a passport?

MobileState

I just heard about couple of cases and then I started thinking...

BrokenArrows

An expired passport doesn't change your right to stay in the country, it just means you cannot leave or re-enter the country because you don't have any travel documents.

You wont have any problems renewing your passport so dont worry about it.

Apiarist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058317420/eu-citizen-in-ireland

I think you do not need to have a valid passport to stay in Ireland. You will not be able to enter Ireland with an expired passport if you ever leave and want to come back.

wandererz

Does your country not offer online passport renewals?

Or does it not have an embassy in Ireland that you can book an appointment with?

MobileState

But if I stay in Ireland without valid passport how can I, for instance, renew my driving permit? How can I apply for citizenship without a valid passport? Etc.

Apiarist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121215272#Comment_121215272

There is no need to show your passport when renewing the driving license:

https://www.ndls.ie/licensed-driver/renew-my-driving-licence.html

But applying for a naturalization will be problem.

MobileState

They asked me for a valid passport when I applied for PPSN and for my bank account, as I remember.

Do you think for naturalization, that they also ask for a valid passport? And if your passport is expired do they ask you to leave the country?

midnightblue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121215428#Comment_121215428

They will require a valid passport when applying for naturalisation.

They won't ask you to leave the country if your passport is expired.

Jim_Hodge

Why do you think any embassy of an EU state would refuse their citizens a passport renewal?

MobileState

So, actually, what are my options if without a valid passport?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121215578#Comment_121215578

There are none other than that you have a valid ID card. EU and Schengen Area rules require everyone present in the territory to be able to identify themselves and justify their presence in the territory. From a practical point of view it is irrelevant if you are a native of the member state in question as they can’t do anything about you. If not then you can be detained and returned to your own state - but this is very much theory it should not happen in practice.

From a practical point of view there is no reason to believe that you will be unable to renew your passport. All of the EU member states must meet the same basic standard rules of membership and that includes personal freedoms like travel etc and all member states have consular services in all other member states.

So unless there is something you are not telling us, there is absolutely nothing to be concerned about.

MobileState

That's what I was thinking, without valid passport you can't live normally. You could for some period but sooner or later you would need a valid ID.

wandererz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216782#Comment_121216782

If you are a citizen of another EU country, you "should" have an ID card right?

Ireland does not have these for various reasons.

A valid ID card from your EU country will allow you to to leave and enter Ireland.

Also, as a citizen of a EU country, you have the right to live and work here without having to get Irish Citizenship.

Care to explain why you think you will be refused a passport renewal??

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216782#Comment_121216782

Really, you only need a valid passport for travel. While it is commonly used as a general identification document, it's not essential for that purpose; there are alternative means of identifying yourself. Now that you have an Irish driving licence, you will be able to renew it without producing your passport, and a valid driving licence is commonly used as a general identification document in circumstances where a passport might also be used.

So, as long as you never leave Ireland, you can probably stay here and function normally for many, many years without a current passport.

As others have said, you won't be able to naturalise as an Irish citizen without producing a current passport from your country of citizenship. But, as an EU citizen, you can stay here indefinitely, so not being naturalised may not cause insurmountable problems.

wandererz

The naturalisation process also includes a background check by the Gardai/ INIS in every country you have resided in.

So if there are problems / inconsistencies, they will be flagged up.

MobileState

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216816#Comment_121216816

That's all good. My background is totally clean and good.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216860#Comment_121216860

Which just underlines that you should have no reason to fear that you might not get your passport renewed.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216860#Comment_121216860

Then why all the hypothetical questions about IF your passport won't be renewed?

BrokenArrows

Even if you are a serious criminal they will still renew your passport!

There is nothing really that needs to be discussed further. You are worried about a non issue.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121214677#Comment_121214677

Even in the case of outstanding compulsory military serive, the new passport will not be refused.

Legally, you're not in the country, thus you can't be called up. This is for instance in the case of Greece, Switzerland or Austria.

However it is different once you're travelling to that country.

As far as I know Canada does refuse a citizen a passport in the case if they believe they are going to comit a crime, or join some terrorist organization. But such cases of refusal are very rare.

MobileState

I am not a criminal at all and there is no military service in my home country. I am sometimes anxious about different things.

I am wondering, what IF...

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218003#Comment_121218003

Stop wondering. There is no IF.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218003#Comment_121218003

Thats not a good starte to be in.

Wondering over all the things that might go wrong for no apparent reason.

I know some people have no control over that and worry all the time over everything real and imagined, but if you can, stop doing that. It's not helpful wrt anything and everything and leads to mental health issues.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121216945#Comment_121216945

One reason for not renewing is poverty: if it costs a hundred or two to renew and the person has other bills that are a higher priority. I've been in that state once.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219048#Comment_121219048

The OP did mention the embassy not issuing one.

wandererz

Do you have alternative valid ID from your country, such as a national I'd card?

When does your passport expire?

Does your country offer online passport renewals?

Does your country have an embassy in Ireland that you can book an appointment with?

BTW, which country is it? Everyone is intrigued at this stage.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218003#Comment_121218003

You are probably overthinking it. The cases you heard about probably had missing paperwork. There is no reason for your home county not to renew your passport, just start doing it now. You need a valid passport as ID, don't let it become a problems. Just apply.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219048#Comment_121219048

But that would also be a reason why you should not be here! The EU directive requires that you establish economic viability, so that would be a reason for send you home...

breatheme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217395#Comment_121217395

Yeah, I figured. But I didn't want to go whole hog in case there was some country I had never even considered doing this.

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219377#Comment_121219377

Only until they have established habitual residence. Even the U.K., pre-Brexit, did not kick out EU nationals once they became indigent.

fritzelly

Reading between the lines - did you take up citizenship in another EU country (from outside the EU) and now afraid they may revoke that citizenship? (an assumption based on even the kid not having EU citizenship)

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121214677#Comment_121214677

Not unheard of, esp if the OP had "political issues" with his government, also some people might not feel safe visiting their countries embasy.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121214677#Comment_121214677

Khashoggi entered the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul on 2 October 2018 to obtain documents related to his planned marriage, but no CCTV recorded him exiting. Amid news reports claiming that he had been dismembered with a bone saw inside the consulate, he was declared a missing person. 

Saudi Arabian and Turkish officials inspected the consulate on 15 October, during which Turkish officials found evidence that Khashoggi had been killed and that chemical experts had tampered with evidence

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236242#Comment_121236242

In the context of this thread, we'd be talking about an EU member state behaving like this. That does seem pretty far-fetched.

MobileState

All good. I forgot to write that I have a new passport.

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121217024#Comment_121217024

Sure, they'll renew, but they will follow it up with an arrest warrant.

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219377#Comment_121219377

There is a difference between being poor and needing to be financially careful and being so poor that you are a considerable burden to the host state. Ireland generally doesn't deport people for being poor.