Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Bishop of hope

If taking refugees is partaking and aiding genocide, I'd be confused. We took in loads of Ukrainians etc, refugees from all over the place. Are we partaking in genocide all over the place?

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if a bus load of Gazans were coming to a hotel or center near you or me what the reaction of the wider Irish community would be to that, would we be celebrating the lives saved, or protesting that we might getting terrorists? That's when you'd see what was really thought of the plight of Gazans. It would be interesting to see the reaction.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449485#Comment_123449485

Are the aims of Putin and Netenyahu not completely different?

I don't believe Putin wants to kill/remove all Ukrainians. He sees Ukranians as Russian - he wants to annex territory/ take over politically, so that rival countries don't have influence or strategic advantage so close to Russian borders. He (like Netenhau) is a sociopathic scumbag, but that is my understanding of it. Palestinian civilians are in a completely different kind of peril than Ukrainians. Israel wants to wipe them out from that land (either through murder or expulsion), and give their land to Israelis.

Allowing Ukrainians in fleeing war does not in any way make you complicit with Putin's goals. In your opinion, does taking in Palestinians make you complicit in Israel's?

Bishop of hope

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449500#Comment_123449500

I just asked the question mini. You haven't addressed that.

The situation on the ground in Gaza is dire, so if taking people out of it saves lives is it not worth considering doing that, letting it happen without any action, is that a better solution?

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449485#Comment_123449485

Israel wants to cleanse Gaza completely of all Palestinians. Anyone facilitating that is aiding ethnic cleansing and thus Genocide. Israel will not let the Gazans back in.

Comparing taking in Palestinians from Gaza with taking in Ukrainian refugees is a false equivalency.

Bishop of hope

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449521#Comment_123449521

OK. So without further intervention and actually something happening to stop Israel its better to standby and let the Gazans die and live in a hell like situation than take them out and try to save lives?

If Israel realises its plan and no international intervention happens, when in your mind is the right time to take out people who want to go for instance. Would you rather they were all killed as a matter of Gazan honour?

Tony EH

The Palestinians shouldn't have to go anywhere. All the rest of the world needs to do is to stop selling arms to Israel (70% of their weaponry comes from the US), place sanctions on them and boycott their goods.

In a week, Israel will put a halt to what it's doing.

The dilemma is if anywhere takes in the people of Gaza, it'll become a permanent situation. Because Israel will use it to move into Gaza indefinitely. Into the bargain, it sets a very dangerous precedent going forward for any other tin pot dictatorship that wants to cleanse an area of their undesirables.

There really is no "better" option here.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449534#Comment_123449534

Palestinians are in their homeland - they should not have to leave at all. Many have stated they will never leave their land - its their land and they will stay. Even if that means being murdered by Israel. Its not for me me to tell them to leave for their own safety. Besides, Israel will not allow them to leave. Israel has closed all border crossings since early March and have commenced the construction of Concentration Camps (to use the words of Smotrich).

The immediate solution is simple - Israel ceases their Genocide.

Bishop of hope

So no one wants to answer the questions on a bus load of Gazans coming to a town near you, would they rather all the Gazans were killed or relocated?

No, just do the usual but Israel whinge rather than address what might have to happen, no sign of anyone stopping it yet. Fire away lads.

Ireland is full of people who were in their homeland and forced out or die!

Sudden Valley

I dont think complaining about israel trying to deport the Gazans from their own land permanently is whinging. How about Israel take these people into Israel? The lengths posters go to shift away from israels crimes at the moment is mind-boggling.

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449668#Comment_123449668

You like victim blaming, the reason palestinians are dying is because they wont run away from the men bombing, shooting and starving them.

If a rabid dog or a nazi is attacking someone, you put them down. Thats what people should be advocating. The world should step up to this genocidal country and push them back to their borders, thats the 1948 border. A UN peace keeping force should stay to stop Israel from their rabid attackes

Bishop of hope

What Israel is doing is wrong, abhorrent, genocidal and at least bordering on ethnic cleansing. But have a go at me lads, keep whinging ......but Israel, don't answer the questions I pose. Rather like the people you accuse that support Israels actions.

Again, how do you think a town near you would react if a bus load of Palestinians were arriving to a hotel or center near you?

Is it better to take Gazans out and save as many lives as possible or leave them there to starve or die violently if Israel arent or can't be stopped?

Bishop of hope

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449682#Comment_123449682

Is that the stupidest question on this thread yet?

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449500#Comment_123449500

This is a crazy take.

What's with the mental gymnastics some people use regarding Putin. "Oh but his war in Ukraine is different".

People spend so much time on this much smaller war in Gaza they fail to educate themselves on the much bigger one in Ukraine.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449861#Comment_123449861

What mental gymnastics?

It is totally different. First of all - even if Putin wanted to do what Israel is doing, he can't, because Ukraine have an army and are fighting back. Russia are also recieving huge sanctions and the condemnation of alot of the international community, backed up with aid/weapons pouring into Ukraine.

The Palestinians have zero defenders and zero allies. Totally different situation

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449828#Comment_123449828

Of course getting them out would be the more humane option, but it's a catch 22. Either action you mention is being complicit with genocide. The answer is mass sanctions on Israel and cutting of the supply of arms and massive pressure to get them to stop this conflict

Busloads of Palestinians would of course be met with ire by some in Ireland, same as any other refugees, don't get what your point is. Doesn't mean Israel shouldn't be sanctioned does it?

You seem to be calling for Ireland to what - stop criticizing Israel if they won't take in all the refugees in Gaza - or what are you getting at?

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449668#Comment_123449668

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449828#Comment_123449828

I can't answer for everyone but I'd have no problem with Palestinian genocide refugees coming here. That's the humane thing to do. I'd even take in anyone I could accommodate so they get away from the war crimes, butchery, starvation tactics and ethnic cleansing that Israel is perpetrating on innocents.

Would you?

I've answered - do me the honour of reciprocating.

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449828#Comment_123449828

Yes saving lives is most important. But you ask a simplistic question. If a country offered what would Israel do, they would more than likely step up their genocidal campaign, thinking, well IRL took 60,000 Palestinians, if we pile on the pressure then Germany, France will take some also. The net result is more would die.

Your question is almost like 'do you like to beat your wife at night or first thing in the morning', there is no real answer to what you're asking, Its also like asking, well if you love Palestine so much why don't you go fight for them', another question seen over on the Russia v URK thread, Its why you're not getting a straight answer.

The issue is Israel is trying to move all Palestinians from their land - Fact. Second they have closed all exit routes for Palestine - Fact. Third Israel are continuing to bomb hospitals, schools - Fact. Fourth Israel do not allow food aid to enter Palestine when food and fresh water is now practically exhausted - Fact. Fifth Israel won't allow foreign press in to report - Fact. Finally Israel (and their puppets on-line) calls anyone that points this out a antisemite, which is bewildering as its Israel that people are against and not a religion, plenty of pro Israel people on this thread continue to tell us that Israel has plenty of Catholic & Muslim citizens - Fact.

So in a nut shell we should take Palestinians but that is not the best solution. The best solution is to push back Israel, that's what the majority of the world agree with in the barbaric Russian v UKR war.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449831#Comment_123449831

What is stupid about that question?

I posted it myself a couple of times recently. It appears that not only are you comfortable with calling posters liars (me) but also of stupidity. That's really not going to further any discussion is it?

There's no such thing as a stupid question.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449088#Comment_123449088

I'd imagine they are Palestinian press. The Israeli army have done their level best to murder the Palestinian journalists. They certainly do everything possible to prevent news getting out (zero power, network since start of war). The international press are not allowed into Gaza. It's very wrong. Probably the first conflict ever where that has happened.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123450149#Comment_123450149

An occupying, strong military force rounding up people to systematically murder them.

Where have we seen that before. You'd think the Israelis would learn from the past.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123450166#Comment_123450166

Some posters here actually claimed Israel banned international journalists for their own safety. You couldn't make it up. The levels people will go to in order to justify wanton murder. Only Palestinians...

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123450166#Comment_123450166

They did. They learned how to do it.

Bishop of hope

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123450008#Comment_123450008

Of course I would. I have worked in a few refugee centers here and been criticised for it indeed.

Bishop of hope

I never called you either and a stupid question doesn't make anyone a stupid person or a liar either for that matter. But asking why the Israelis wouldntp take them in while you're arguing against them taking them over? Come on.

BTW Israel offered them a corridor in the beginning if I remember correctly, but as I said, any action Israel offers isn't worth the paper it's written on. All they want is rid of them and one way or the other that's their plan

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123450207#Comment_123450207

Israel has consistently stated that it has no issue with Palestinian civilians. They are excruciatingly careful (according to them) at avoiding collateral damage. Their goal is to eliminate Hamas and release the hostages.

So why not let innocent civilians into Israel to protect them? It's a simple and totally valid question.

Of course, everyone knows that what Israel says and what they actually do are two very different things a lot of the time.

In this case, of course they won't let Palestinian refugees in because they really don't care about them at all - in fact they simply wish they were all gone. Either killed or cleansed.

That's the truth of it - but by asking the question, you can only come up with the correct answer - Genocide is all Israel wants.

Odhinn

The slaughter continues -

"At least 82 people have been killed in Israeli strikes and shelling on Gaza since dawn, according to rescue workers.

"The number of martyrs from Israeli airstrikes on Gaza has risen to 82 after the occupation targeted several homes in northern Gaza," civil defence spokesman Mohammad al-Mughayir said."

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2025/0515/1512977-gaza/

Bishop of hope

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123450342#Comment_123450342

I don't know why tbh, I can only guess that because Hamas might be mixed in with them and for secirity reasons os there excuse on that one. But the reality is what you say, so the most likely option is to send them elsewhere. I know, you know the poster who posed the question knows, that Israel want them gone bag and baggage. Leaving them there to starve and die violently doesn't help them either does it?

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123449828#Comment_123449828

It's because you misrepresent the situation and ignore the causation/ramification of your questions that make them ridiculous.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123450527#Comment_123450527

It certainly doesn't "help" Israel on the world stage - but they really don't care what the world thinks of them and how depraved they are.

The list of facts posted earlier by @Gerry T plus all the other evidence, shows that Israel is a terrorist genocidal State and a worldwide Pariah devoid of any morals whatsoever.

World leaders are starting to call them on it.

dmcdona

There is a live feed on the Beeb. But this specific post shows recent Israeli construction in Gaza.

I wouldn't be surprised if they start laying train tracks soon.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c1de39v0r1kt?post=asset%3A6a4d0537-e7a2-4ad6-a4be-240e6798ae82#post