Hamas strike on Israel

sock.rocker*

“We are finally going to occupy the Gaza Strip. We will stop being afraid of the word ‘occupation,’” Smotrich told Channel 12 journalist Amit Segal during a conference organised by Israel’s right-wing Besheva newspaper.

“We are finally taking control of all humanitarian aid, so that it does not become supplies for Hamas. We are separating Hamas from the population, cleansing the Strip, returning the hostages — and defeating Hamas,” he said.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419208#Comment_123419208

Ok again a lot of muddy-the-water talk because you are trying to wriggle away but no, you did not answer any of my questions. I read your responses to my original posts and you avoided all of them. Please take them one by one and provide answers. Copy and paste them here and see if you have the bottle to answer them directly. A few are Yes/No. It won't take long. Note: I have no questions about kneecap, I am aware they made the news this week. Irrelevant to my 7 questions. And Geneva conventions came in after WW2 but lovely little Hitler tangent there...jaysus the levels.

Here you are again.

1. When is the last time the Israeli army sustained a casualty?
2. What are the military targets in refugee camps?
3. How can you believe the IDF anymore? 
4. Gaza is completely ruined - What possible military objectives are left??
5. "The civil defence later said 10 more people were killed in a strike on a tent also in Al-Mawasi, among them a child and seven women." - Are you suggesting the other 2 were Hamas and this was a legitimate strike against to gain a military objective?
6. How is bombing refugee camps a legitimate war aim?
7. Do you accept that denying medical supplies and food/water is a breach of International Humanitarian Law?
8. Israel decided to abandon the ceasefire and hostage negotiations.so that Netanyahu could cling to power and not face charges. Are you aware of that?

If you know so much, answer the questions above one by one and then we can debate facts. I added an 8th question.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419530#Comment_123419530

The posters defending this (with no sensible logic) will have serious regrets when they are older and wonder why the world has become a much darker place with no rules. You will notice a few have already stopped posting because they realised they were on the wrong side of history and right/wrong. One in particular was adamant over and over and over that Israel has zero plans to take over any of Gaza.

Quitelife

Israel is going to take over all of Gaza seems to be the latest strategy- will they kill everyone there to achieve that ?
What Israel is doing is a lot worse than what Russia is doing to Ukraine , why is there not as much criticism??

Tony EH

You really have to be the lowest of the low to stand by what Israel is doing to Palestine.

The lowest of the low.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419637#Comment_123419637

It's not a lot worse, both things are equally bad. Also every second person in Ireland, particularly the young, is vocally pro Palestine on social media etc, none of them seem to have any interest in Ukraine.

Your claim just makes no sense at all

Quandary

At least now Israel have finally revealed their true intentions. Intentions we all already knew. They are taking the Gaza Strip by brute force. I’m expecting the West Bank will follow at some stage in the future. They have the complete unquestioning backing and I would even argue encouragement of the US so there is nothing to stop them.

The strong take what they want from the weak because they can.

Its disgusting, and a sad and depressing time for humanity.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419637#Comment_123419637

They've got Trump's green light to redevelop it as a resort strip.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419615#Comment_123419615

They used to deny that Israel would ever bomb a hospital, and then started to support bombing hospitals. Remember that, when the idea of Israel brazenly bombing a hospital was shocking instead of completely expected.. I remember the first time it was reported they bombed a refugee camp and it was massive news. Absolutely shocking and of course all the denials. Now it's just another normal place for Israel to bomb every day and people support it.

Gazans will be forced south with bombs. A death march with Israel now taking over all aid and distributing it from centralised locations. How people will be able to get this aid, and march dozens of miles, after such brutality and suffering, I have no idea.

Don't underestimate these people's ability to go lower and accept everything Israel does. They don't see the people as anything close to human. One can only hope that at some point in their lives, when the hatred dies away a bit and they have some time to think, they'll realise they're monsters.

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419745#Comment_123419745

Well yeah I mean the Minister of Defence, Israel Katz, said as much. The intention is to annex the remaining territory.

"On peace and security matters, Katz is considered to be a hardliner in the Israeli government.[41][42] He takes an annexationist view of the West Bank: he supports continued settlement construction,[43] extending full Israeli sovereignty to the West Bank, and severing all relations with the Palestinian Authority"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Katz

It was promised to them 2000 years ago after all.

dmcdona

Whilst I agree that the future for Gaza/West Bank looks very bleak, I am hopeful that current legal actions will prevail and result in justice being done and being seen to be done.

Many many months ago, after the initial ICJ hearing into Israel's Genocide, the evidence was substantial. Then came the ICJ judgement last summer that all the Palestinian areas Israel occupied were illegal.

Since then with the total blockade of Gaza, the demolition of Palestinian homes in the West Bank, the executions of 15 medics, impending increase in military activity in Gaza and continuing bombardment, the evidence for Genocide and War Crimes is completely overwhelming.

I simply cannot imagine the ICJ finding Israel anything but guilty of Genocide.

Of course, and it is largely true, many will point out that there is no "punishment" the ICJ can mete out. But the moniker will be a stain on Israel forever. It's noticeable that often, whenever Germany is discussed, conversations lead to the Nazis and the Holocaust - that happened in the 1940s.

That I write this on VE Day is pretty ironic.

"Never again" - in your dreams, Israel.

Downlinz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419637#Comment_123419637

Ordinary people are watching and noting their governments being complicit during the worst atrocity they've witnessed in their lifetime. At some point in the not so distant future there'll be a major event requiring Western and EU unity and the politicians will wonder why there's none to be found among the populations.

I'm starting to wonder if the West has already fallen and we just haven't realised it yet.

sock.rocker*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419698#Comment_123419698

By every metric, things are significantly worse in Gaza. Over 80-90% of structures are destroyed. Almost the entire population is starving and have been displaced and they are getting bombed in refugee camps. More deaths in a shorter amount of time, and basically all civilian with mostly women and children. Israel has announced they will take over all of Gaza, and unlike Ukraine, which has a military and Western support, Israel will simply bomb everything and forced millions into a concentration camp in the south.

Israel has complete control over aid, electricity, medicine, travel, and internet. There are basically no functioning schools or hospitals left. How much Israel blockades stuff getting into Gaza determines how many people live or die. Russia does not have this control over Ukraine. It doesn't surround Ukraine. It doesn't have control over Ukraine's food and water.

If half the West overtly supported Russia, these young people you have a problem with would be more vocal in their support for Ukraine. People don't have to be vocal about something everyone already agrees with. At the moment, Palestinians are suffering more than anyone on Earth, and Western governments are supporting and arming their oppression, and have been for decades. People feel compelled to voice their opinions about this.

Yes things are bad in Ukraine, but I have no idea what you're trying to signal by claiming they're equally bad and complaining that people care more about Palestine. If I kidnapped you and offered to airdrop you in a random location either in Ukraine or Gaza, you'd beg for anywhere in Ukraine. You'd probably beg to be dropped in the most dangerous part of Eastern Ukraine over the safest place in Gaza. At least you'd escape Ukraine eventually, but you'd be stuck in Gaza forever like the people there. Youtubers are literally going to Eastern Ukraine to check it out.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419698#Comment_123419698

What is happening in Gaza and in Ukraine is completely different.

Both have aggressive psychopaths waging war to annex territory, absolutely, but in the case of Ukraine they have an army that is somehow managing to go toe to toe with Russia (mostly thanks to western help, which greatly balances the scales - depending on what you read of course). I don't know if Russia would be as bad as Israel, but I know they aren't allowed to be - hopefully they will continue to be the case.

The Palestinians have no one to defend, no army, no money, no sophisticated weapons pouring in to balance things. A terrorist group who doesn't seem to care about Palestinians civilians, and is armed with rockets launchers and automatic rifles, couldn't defend them even if they did care to. This is genocide against unarmed, and now starving, civilians, as Israel are witholding food for every man woman and child in Gaza. This is another level of brutal to what a Russia is doing, as scummy as they are.

There can be no reason, morally, to ever withhold food to starving children. It is the epitome of evil.

All this talk in the western world about people in the middle east etc being against western values, invading us, we need to stand firm etc.

What exactly are our values if we are letting this happen? They are being eroded from the inside, not outside, and I genuinely fear for the world that stuff like this is becoming normalized.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419867#Comment_123419867

This is also where Israeli claims of 'What about the things Hamas did to us?' completely fall down. There isn't anything Hamas have ever done or could do which equals or justifies the hell that the IDF are unleashing upon Gaza.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123417045#Comment_123417045

Only a minority of IDF soldiers have used civilians as human shields. The IDF is investigating those cases.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419926#Comment_123419926

It was standard practice for decades.

"IDF is investigating"? Ha.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123414268#Comment_123414268

There's no evidence that the bulldozer driver saw Rachel Corrie until after she was hit. What motive would an Israeli soldier have for knowingly killing an unarmed US citizen?

Actually, those houses in Rafah in 2003 were demolished because terrorists used them as cover from which to shoot at Israeli soldiers. I mistakenly thought that Corrie was killed in the West Bank - I probably mixed-up Rafah with Ramallah.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123414333#Comment_123414333

The definition of genocide is not proof of genocide. Courts don't issue findings of guilt on technicalities. If what you claim about Israel was true then Keir Starmer would've been guilty of stating willingness to commit genocide when he said in the run-up to last year's general election that he'd be willing to press the nuclear button.

The ICJ ruled against the US in the Nicaragua case in the 1980s and that led to ….. nothing!

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419942#Comment_123419942

What motive would an Israeli soldier have for knowingly killing an unarmed US citizen?

The same motive they have for killing UNWRA workers, hundreds of journalists, thousands of women and children.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419955#Comment_123419955

So essentially, a "legitimate target" is whatever the IOF says it is.

sock.rocker*

Still my favourite ironic username on boards. Calls himself an analyst when his entire view on the Middle East comes down to "Well Israel said _____, and sure, why would they lie."

Grayson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWhNnf6cXyI

Sorry if this has already been posted. there's 200 replies since I was last in the thread and I haven't gone through them yet.

The NYT used footage from the incident, phone calls made by someone there along with the israeli report to determine what happened when the ambulances were attacked.

It's pretty much a war crime.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419955#Comment_123419955

Hamas hides behind civilians

Ok.... You always make the same point, but how does that tie in with Israel witholding food and aid to millions of people - they don't seem to care who is Hamas or who isnt - would you agree?

If any other country in the world was using starvation as a method of war, what would your opinion be of them? Genuine question.

TheValeyard

This is ethnic cleansing

tayto lover

IDF Commander who led the murder unit that slaughtered young Hein Rajab and her family as well as the medics who answered her calls for help has been identified and ICJ calls for his arrest -

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/human-rights-group-files-war-crime-complaint-against-israeli-soldier-over-death-of-gazan-child/3556873

Fantastic news.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419793#Comment_123419793

This post is excellent. 100% agree. Even the lurkers should read this post carefully. The IDF and govt have somehow normalised despicable wrongdoings.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123419147#Comment_123419147

That was the plan from the get go.

sock.rocker*

That bill in America to criminalise any boycotts or mean words about Israel seems to have failed thankfully.

Maga lawmakers defend right to boycott Israel, leading to pulling of House vote on bill to criminalize such boycotts

Prominent figures in the Maga movement came out against the bipartisan IGO Anti-Boycott Act, House Resolution 867 saying it would criminalize boycotts and free speech against Israel, after which a scheduled vote on the legislation today was canceled, Newsweek reports.

According to the lawmakers who introduced the bill, Mike Lawler, a New York Republican, and Josh Gottheimer, a New Jersey Democrat, it would have amended “the Export Control Reform Act of 2018 to include international governmental organizations (IGOs) in existing anti-boycott laws”. The change, they said, “targets harmful and inherently antisemitic” boycott efforts undertaken at IGOs while also “extending protections already in place for boycotts instigated by foreign countries”.

Critics warned the bill threatened the constitutional rights of Americans to free speech. The penalties under the legislation included civil penalties, criminal fines of up to $1m and imprisonment of up to 20 years for supporting calls to boycott Israel or its settlements.

Would have been an absurd law.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123418654#Comment_123418654

False - Germany declared war on Britain by invading its treaty ally, Poland. And with the possible exception of the bombing of Dresden, nobody cried "genocide" or "war crimes" when Britain and the US flew nightly air raids bombing the crap out of German cities.

Back on topic, seems that one of Iran's other proxies, the Houthis, have got some new missiles from their puppet masters.

Israel fails to intercept Houthi missile targeting its main airport, showing the limits of US efforts to weaken the group | CNN

But hey, I'm sure the usual suspects will find a way to blame Israel and call them the aggressor, especially if and when they respond.