RUGBY WORLD CUP: Issues with Format/Competitiveness

TheRona

Discuss your issues with the Rugby World Cup format and levels of competitiveness here, along with suggestions for improvement.

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JeffKenna

Hahaha

Cluedo Monopoly

I love rugby but I think rugby world cups are boring. Most games and outcomes are utterly predictable until the knockout stages. Give me a 6 nations any day.

Namibia have been at every world cup and lost every single game. 26 games I believe. Pointless stuff.

Dick phelan

Rugby will not grow until the people at the top have a desire to actually improve teams. It's a closed door system designed to maintain things as they are. Word Rugby hates the idea of Fiji being better than Australia. Because Georgia don't bring revenue they won't be given a chance at 6N despite Italy being an embarrassing mess. Why has Japan gone backwards despite hosting the WC and looking like a serious coming force 4 years ago? Rugby will start falling behind to Rugby League Sevens or other sports. Could well go the way of Test Cricket whereby T20 has come in and taken over as the popular format.

Shank Williams

still run by dinosaurs at the top I suspect - pure cargo cult thinking- keep imitating the fifa World Cup by expanding = ????? = profit

desperately poor showcase for the sports- very few meaningful games over 5 weeks- knockouts compromised due to idiotic early seeding- loads of thumping of “ave a go” heroes who simply should not be there.

theres solutions but it will require people at the top to admit hard truths so not going to happen

Dubinusa

Look at the clusterfcuk in England. Teams folding and the premiership is at 10 sides. Rugby can't maintain a very low standard in England! The biggest union. How can rugby grow when Oz are now a tier 2 nation?

It may develop in Uraguay or Chile. But so what? Both are small nations with little financial clout. There's so little interest in rugby. Marketing and advertising is so poor.

I suppose that if rugby ever is to grow, Germany and the U.S would be ideal to lay the seed. Italy has been a failure. It's disappointing for sure, but Italy was and is an opportunity. It's a big nation with a massive sports culture and here we are watching them getting horsed by France.

Looking at the Pacific island teams, there's great players and rugby is big but, there's no financial clout. Scotland are a mess. The u20's are 2nd division and there's no end to their demise. They are achieving a lot with so little. Wales are threading water. Realistically, the game will develop if there's multiple tournaments in bigger nations and its aired globally. Touring sides like the Babarians could play multiple matches in places like Canada, U.S, South America and Asia. Host the Heineken cup final in Spain or Germany.

There's many options and closing the corral gate to protect the Scotlands and Itay's in rugby is poor.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204879#Comment_121204879

Its a very conservative sport and the big unions are very protectionist of themselves over all else. I dont think World Rugby hate Idea of Fiji being better than Australia but do see A strong Australia as essential as sport is struggling there because of so much domestically and they cant have that with a world cup in Australia in 4 years time

Japan lost out hugely because of covid. They didnt play for 20 months or so following being knocked out of the 2019 world cup.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204915#Comment_121204915

What solutions?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205523#Comment_121205523

Australia aent tier 2. Barbarians wont do anything to transform other countries.

RAKM

Cant stand this idea of spreading the game. Its always gonna be a minority game. Even Italy in the 6N has failed. 23 yrs after joining they lost all their games and conceded 4 tries in each. Ireland improved more during that time. RWC shoud be 16 at most with a tournament for weaker nations the year before with 1 or 2 qualifiers at most.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121206362#Comment_121206362

The sport is struggling in different ways in many of the strongest countries and needs to expand to newer markets or it will struggle even further.

Every sport is a minority sport compared to the very big soccer etc.

Italy hasnt failed in the 6 nations. A 16 team world cup doesnt help the sport. doesnt help the existing countries finances. doesnt help anyone.

RAKM

I take the point on finances.

Shank Williams

You could make a strong case for a 4 team World Cup based on the rubbish on display here from Scotland

chrisd2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058317130/rugby-world-cup-issues-with-format-competitiveness

Reduce the number of teams, reduce the size of squads and have games closer together, that way teams have to use a full squad without one sides games that are more like training games where players are currently rested.

Over a month so far and less than a handful of meaningful games.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207397#Comment_121207397

You can't reduce size of squads and also reduce gap vlbetween games. They've had to extend to 33 from 31 for good reason. Injeuy cover etc

There would be more meaningful pool games if they changed conpetitions/games beyond the world cup not format/structure of the tournament itself

chrisd2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208147#Comment_121208147

My suggest was that teams with fewer members in the squad and more frequent games, would be made to use the full squad, not play the same 15 in each game. Ultimately the issue is however the wide gap in standards between the best and worst. Soccer will go the same way also with larger number of teams in future world cups.

Fred Cryton

I have two sons, both likely to be 6'3 at least when they get to adulthood and do not want either of them playing rugby. It's a brutal, nasty sport. Fingers in the eye, head clashes, stamping etc. A gentlemans sport it most certainly is not. Give me tennis or golf any day of the week.

If anything, people with my view are going to grow in number and rugby may diminish further at the grassroots level.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208860#Comment_121208860

When I was a kid playing mini rugby in the early 90s loads of my friends weren't allowed play so it's not a new view you have.

It's not for everyone, it's a tough uncompromising sport.

Contrary to what people believe because of the games exposure, adult playing numbers are well down on what it was even in the 70s/80s when my dad was playing.

Underage numbers way up but they don't stick with it

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208442#Comment_121208442

That wouldnt happen though and doesnt help anyone though as you would still have big wins between top sides and the weakest sides. nothing changing in format of world cup will change that only changes to what teams play/do in between world cups will help increase standards. you cant compare soccer to rugby in this regard.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208860#Comment_121208860

Brutal. Yes at times it can be but nasty. not at all. there can be head clashes in lots of sports. stamping same.

There is nothing to back up people with your view is growing as in fact the opposite is true. the number of kids able to access and play rugby has grown exponentianally in the past 2 decades and likely to grow even more in years to come

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208860#Comment_121208860

Its not for you obviously. All contact sports has risk.

stephen_n

Italy are telling of the need to manage expectations of what is achievable. The idea of teams getting more access to Tier 1 nations, will automatically improve them, has no real evidence. Italy have had 23 years of top level access and if anything have regressed in that time. Why would Georgia, or any other country be different. The reality is that for a lot of these countries, they will never be competitive against the top 5 teams, possibly the top 8. So that shouldn’t be the expectation or bench mark.

Growing the game in these countries, increasing player numbers, increasing interest. That should be the measure of success. Portugal’s success at this World Cup will probably do that for them.

ironically increasing the numbers will mean more competitive games for the smaller teams. We will still see blow outs but 4 groups of 6 would also mean no break weeks, so the Tier 1’s can’t go as strong as they have this year.

gameoverdude

Is this turning into a rugby bashing thread?

I got more concussions/injuries in soccer than rugby(stitches don't count as injuries).

Buddy Bubs

At least the complaints about the seedings and groups will give us 4 competitive quarter finals.

Dave_The_Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208860#Comment_121208860

I will admit I have a certain temptation to just post "Alright, see you now, don't bother posting here again" and I'd probably be ok with that.

But assuming that you're the type of person the sport is try to attract, what would you do about those problems you mention above to try fix them?

sprucemoose

global calendar needs to happen imo

move rwc outside of domestic competition time

run a plate competition as part of the rwc

1 & 2 in the group go to cup 1/4 finals, 3 & 4 go to plate 1/4s

could even have a bowl competition for 5th place

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219381#Comment_121219381

A global calender needs to happen but how do you move world cup outside of domestic calender to take into account competitions in both hemispheres.

We don't need a plate competition. We need more games for the countries outside of the rugby championship and 6 nations against the rest of the world to help those countries close gap.

A bowl competition isn't what's needed for same reason. Many of the countries like georgia and Fiji need 5/6 games A year against ireland/new zealand/France not what they get right now. A plate/Bowl d9esnt help with that

Podge_irl

The problem with a plate competition is that you would basically have Australia or Scotland romping it if they so chose, but more likely a completely disinterested Australia and Scotland just going through the numbers.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219829#Comment_121219829

Well an interested Australia got beaten by Fiji this year, and an interested Scotland got beaten by Japan 4 years ago, as did we

Just because a so-called "tier 1" team may end up in a bowl competition is absolutely no guarantee that could "romp" home in it if they chose.

Personally I think it's an absolute no-brainer, if the figures work out (and between ticket sales and TV rights I can't see why not).

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226733#Comment_121226733

They got beaten by a Japan team who very much would not have been in the plate competition! Same goes for Aus

Italy

Uruguay

Scotland

Tonga

Australia

Portugal

Japan

Samoa

A tier 2 team is not winning that competition. It will be won by a tier 1 team/Japan who don't really want to be there.

sydthebeat

Who wouldnt want to see an Italy or Japan win that??

Obviously Scotland would be heavy heavy favourites for it, but peg Scotland v Aussie in the first round and it's anyone's.

Edit: and Portugal v Uruguay would be a better watch than most of the pool games in this year's rwc

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227137#Comment_121227137

Who wouldnt want to see an Italy or Japan win that??

I suspect Italy and Japan for starters. They just wouldn't care. Half the teams in the competition would have no interest in being in it - I'd say a bunch of them would probably return to their clubs instead.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121227217#Comment_121227217

ah here I think youre jumping the shark now podge.

Do you seriously think that Italy, perennial wooden spoonists in the only test competition they play every year, wouldnt celebrate a RWC bowl win?? their ONLY international honour is a FIRA cup (european nations cup) back in 1996

i think a RWC bowl win for Italy could be the very catalyst they need in that country to grow the game, because they arent winning a 6N or RWC in the foreseeable future.

for japan, similarly their grand total of any championship wins is 2.5 pacific nations cup wins. They measure their progress in "tier 1" victories.

a far as players returning to their clubs? like the RWC finalists, the most they would miss in the URC is 2 rounds, and none if it was japan, and like everyone else, regulation 9 applies.