Not being allowed to take flexi-time/not being paid overtime

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196574#Comment_121196574

Completely irrelevant to this thread, which is about flexi time in the civil service - not a local authority - and the OP not being allowed to use the hours they've already worked up.

No one is the CS is allowed accrue more than 11.5 hours flexi per four week period, or take more than 1.5 days flexi leave, per flexi period.

Flexi hours built up, must be taken as flexi leave within the following 4 weeks period. You cannot build up another 11.5 hours, to accrue more flexi days, until what is already built up is taken as any balance over 11.5 hours at the end of a flexi period is automatically lost.

Please leave your anecdotes at the door, or at least ensure they are relevant to the case in hand.

damncyclist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196612#Comment_121196612

As far as I know 'aspirations' isn't an eligibility requirement for the job. What my aspirations may or may not be is of no relevance to my terms of employment. If you have gripes with civil service contracts you can put them in a letter to your TD, or a write a letter to your local newspaper perhaps. I'd be grateful if you could stop blocking the pathway for helpful comments.

All the best x

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196574#Comment_121196574

Private company I worked for had a similar arrangement with one person. In late after dropping to creche then long lunch to move them to after school. But then we worked often worked late for deadlines. Of course someone complained. So then all local arrangements stopped. But then all working extra and late for free for deadlines stopped. Flexibility works both ways.

Littlefinger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196612#Comment_121196612

Are you actually for real???? HEO's have as much aspirations as AOs. I'm a HEO and am quite career driven with degrees. The only reason I'm a HEO rather than an EO is because of the pay scale. HEO's are better paid at the start before AOs reach the same pay as them by the end of the scale. How dare you assume HEOs don't have aspirations. You are clearly clueless about the civil service.

OP if you want my advice it would be to ignore everything Mrs. OBumble says and talk to the union or just try and ride the secondment out.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195747#Comment_121195747

Amazing how local verbal "habits" and "culture" seem to evaporate once you put them in writing.

Email vs Chat https://workchronicles.com/email-vs-chat/

Flinty997

Sometimes it's worth testing changing the delivery of tasks see if it has any impact.

Ninthlife

Traditionally AOs were specifically put in areas regarding research and policy but Ive noticed there is certainly a bit of a new trend of appointing AOs as a cheaper alternative to HEOs

AO was usually graduates and allso a 'fast track' to AP but to say because you went from EO to HEO because of lack of aspiration is a joke. Having aspirations means sweet fa when its competency based interviews anyway.

Regarding the OP. Just because its 'culture' doesnt mean its right. By pass the managers go straight to HR.

Had a similar issue years ago. Line manager was a 10am start and worked til 6 or later, I started at 8 and finished at 4. They liked to do majority of their work after 4 as it was quieter and suggested I do the same. The word "No" is a complete sentence. My career proespects nor aspirations were never affected by it 🙄

Flinty997

 The word "No" is a complete sentence. 

😀 👍️

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197344#Comment_121197344

It's generally a good mix within a team to have some who start early and some who work late.

SharkMX

Not PS but I used to work for a company and was happy to do extra hours. I used to do about 2 extra hours a day because i actually liked the job.

Then a new boss started and within a month pulls me into the office and told me that they had noticed I was going home early and it had to stop. I asked what time i was going home at because i couldnt remember what time i was leaving at every day.

She went off on one ranting and raving that I should know my hours. When she calmed down I asked her what time was I in at on those days because I coudlnt remember either.

Another rant session and then I said did I start any day after 8:00 or leave any day before 6pm because my hours 9-5 and that was the times I would be starting and leaving at from now on. She came in at 10 every day and left at 7 and when she saw me leaving before 7 she assumed I was on the later shift and was leaving early when I was actually working over an hour over my time.

So OP, what I did was start working my contractual hours after that and never again worked one minute over. I knew the other bosses very well from being such a diligent worker of course and told them what happened and it was her fault that I wasnt available anymore after 5pm. They all apologized but I stuck to my guns as did a few other people who used to work extra hours before that. That woman lost that company so much goodwill and hours of work. Just out of being a dope. Probably ultimately cost the company about 40 or 50 hours a week between myself and others who stopped working late.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198024#Comment_121198024

I suspect most people have had a similar experience a few times in their careers.

BhoyRayzor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195550#Comment_121195550

Wow, do none of this.

Give inches like this and extra miles will be taken!

HydroTendonMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196612#Comment_121196612

A recent internal AP competition in my Department was 50/50 HEO/AO. Anyone who works in the civil service will tell you that the lines have become increasingly blurred between the two grades and in many cases they now carry out the same duties. This is not an accident and the Departments are happy to have cheaper middle management.

Not sure if you are in the CS or not, but you are not giving the OP good advice. An AO should be able to take their leave as they please and work within their normal working hours most of the time. Any competent AP would make sure that was the case for an AO reporting to them.

longtimeok

if it's secondment just finish up and go back to your own department, some places in justice such as courts don't operate it but if it's revenue social protection etc they do have flexi.

if your there just put in transfer to another dep you get moved fast if it's Dublin. your permanent so you should just tell your AP your disappointed with no flexi but do the work and only do your 7 hour day , core hours etc then go home, your on your own as unions and HR are useless

countyireland12345

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TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196612#Comment_121196612

Bollocks. The difference between AO and HEO is just that AO is a graduate recruitment path into the civil service, whereas HEO isn't a recruitment grade - you work your way up from CO/SO/EO to HEO. Anything else is in your mind or a press release from 30 years ago. HEOs are just as successful in AP competitions as AOs. Possibly more successful.

Hotblack Desiato

For years now Depts. have been using AOs as a means of filling HEO posts cheaply, HEO duties at EO rate of pay. This isn't fair on the AOs and, tbh, on the staff they're managing either. (I used to be one, before anyone complains!)

dresden8

Apply for overtime. Apply for Flexi.

Make them refuse it in writing, then you have them by the balls..

You're a civil servant, you should know the value of a paper trail.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252349#Comment_121252349

I never said that HEOs were not successful.

But AO as you correctly state is a graduate recruitment grade. Someone who is of a mind to be whingey about the hours required for a particular position is not likely to be successful on a fast track path into management.

They need to get info a role which is a better fit for their aspirations. Or they need to decide to see the bigger picture and do what's required to achieve their aspirations.

It really comes down to the OPs goals.

But accruing flexi is not an entitlement. And it's not worth getting fond of if you have management aspirations, because APs don't get it.

Hotblack Desiato

Y'know maybe there's more to management than treating your employees like shít and creating a culture of presenteeism? Just a thought like 🙄

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121256543#Comment_121256543

Someone who is of a mind to be whingey about the hours required for a particular position is not likely to be successful on a fast track path into management.

Listen. A) AO is not a "fast track" into management - maybe it was sold that way years ago when they introduced the grade, but it's not been the case for at least a couple of decades, now.

B) The OP was not being "whingey about the hours required" - they're being denied what's absolutely part of the terms and conditions of (almost) every CO, EO, HEO and AO across the civil service (yes, exceptions where people are on shift work or have to staff public offices at set hours) - apart, apparently, from this one Department, which is in breach of numerous agreements and civil service circulars. They're working more hours than they need to, and not getting overtime or flexi. Why would they do that?! It doesn't go into their file, it won't come up when they go for promotion. Their annual PMDS will still be rated as either "Satisfactory" or "Not satisfactory."

C) "it's not worth getting fond of if you have management aspirations, because APs don't get it." Except for the ones who do get it? And OP could be an AO for several more years, so why wouldn't they want to avail of an entitlement, in the meantime?

It really comes down to the OPs goals.

It has nothing to do with the OP's goals. They're an AO. They're entitled to flexi, unless it's been withdrawn from them for some specific reason.

yabadabado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196612#Comment_121196612

What an idiotic post.

OP please ignore that rubbish.

bobbysands81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195737#Comment_121195737

The Terms and Conditions of an AO allow for Flexi and OT.

The Terms and Conditions of an AP do not allow for OT, you are expected to work above and beyond. Most APs do not get flexi (some long standing APs do).

Why should an AO work longer hours that they’re not paid for?

You are not comparing like with like. An AO not working extra free hours will not affect their promotional chances in any way whatsoever.

bobbysands81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195885#Comment_121195885

Ah yes… 100% of people in the private sector work at 100% capacity 100% of the time.