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Home heating options for a new build rural bungalow

  • 30-09-2023 1:49pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭


    I'm finalising construction drawings for a new build with my architect and it has come to the issue of heating before we're ready for issue.

    As I understand it, the standard (easy) approach solution is an A2W heat pump with underfloor heating but anecdotal reports of electricity bills is really putting me off. Plenty of people saying that a heat pump is a better solution than oil, and it's only one combined bill, but the €1,000-1,500 winter electricity bills people are reporting seem insane. I also hear that much depends on the quality of the installation and airtightness - but I've no confidence in myself to oversee the install quality.

    I haven't done exact sums yet, but there is no way that my spend on oil/electricity (supplemented by a couple of wood-burning stoves) in my current 80's bunglow comes anywhere close. Sure the place mightn't be 100% comfortable in the depths of winter, but 90% is fine when I'm saving a couple of grand a year.

    Is there a definitive guide on what alternatives might be feasible? I hear oil with a significant amount of Solar PV might meet regs? Would any form of wood burning boiler be worth the hassle? I've a farm full of trees close to falling that would be a nice renewable energy source.

    I haven't completely abandoned the idea of A2W, but it would be good to have a thorough understanding of my options and the real costs involved.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 Hardyspicer90


    I'm in the exact same situation as yourself, rural bungalow build, not convinced by A2W.

    I have just posted a similar question here, might be of help to you if I get some replies.

    Thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭onrail


    Thanks. My head is melted trying to get an answer!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 410 ✭✭embracingLife


    I saw similar in the paper awhile ago and recently a plumber mentioned it somewhere online that I can't remember now. Anyway electric bill for heat pumps are very high and costs more than the benefits compared to oil & gas.

    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/letters-citizens-are-fooled-by-electric-pump-claims-as-bills-heat-up/a1644731041.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 890 ✭✭✭keno-daytrader


    Built 2 years ago, installed A2W heatpump with ufh both floors. House 210sqm. 1st year heating costing were around 230 euros second year around 270 euros. Heat on 21.5 downstairs and on from Nov to March.

    Get insulation, cold bridging and airtightness right and to me A2W is a no brainer.

    ☀️ 7.8kWp ⚡3.6kWp south, ⚡4.20kWp west



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,889 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    What is the heat-loss indicator from the provisional BER?

    What is the air tightness figure that will be spec'ed in the tender drawings?

    💪


    Misinformation in that rag, trying to undermine.

    The critical piece, once its designed, installed, commissioned properly in a properly spec'ed house is that the home owner knows exactly how much elec the heat pump uses per day, via separate metering so as any faults are picked up because if the compressor stops for whatever reason, the inbuilt elec elements for back up will click in at a COP of 1.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 410 ✭✭embracingLife


    👍👍



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭andyd12


    Agreed on the insulation, cold bridging and air tightness. Get them nailed down through a good engineer or builder.

    People paying 1000-1500 overlooked the above



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,655 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Also oil prices are only going one way for next 20 or 30 years.


    Rural bungalow gas plenty roof, garage and even garden space for PV. Up front costs now could have you with cheap heating on into the future



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭onrail


    @Hardyspicer90 have you had many replies?

    I'm still a little bit conflicted, plus I heard recently that the standard A2W units shouldn't be installed in coastal areas.

    Would installing oil&ufh with the intention of retrofitting A2W later be feasible I wonder?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Did a build 15 years ago, oil underfloor downstairs, multi fuel stove with back boiler heating four 7 foot rads upstairs and the towel rads in main bathroom and ensuites. One solar panel heating hot water only.

    The main key to success is don't try and save money on insulation, especially beneath the underfloor heating but everywhere else is also very important. You'll get one shot off it so make it count. We are very rural here but if the youngfella ran up and down the hall he'd nearly heat the house.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 136 ✭✭hydrus21


    Was thinking of solar for hot water only.

    Are you happy with the design?

    Presumably a 12v immersion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭onrail


    Ah yeah, I'm going direct labour out of financial necessity, so definitely going to spend some of the savings on insulation. PIR board all around is the best I presume?

    I'd say you're spending very little on oil, wood and coal over the year?

    Problem for anyone building now is that it seems to be very difficult under the regs to put in anything other than a heat pump



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Very happy with the set up. We don't use an immersion, the solar panel will usually on the dullest of days take the water in the dual coil cylinder up to 7 degrees we just stick on the oil condenser boiler then for a short while and it costs very little to take it from 7 degrees to hot.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,576 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    We used 100mm Kingspan in the foundation and then the fibreglass wool insulation everywhere else, it's timber frame so all internal walls are packed and we packed in between the 9" ceiling joists as well. We like to have a fire lighting even if the back boiler is not switched on just for a cosy atmosphere but even at that a ton of coal or ovoids goes a long way, the oil man calls about once a year when the price is low. I have timber locally but usually get a couple of ton bags delivered once a year.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,086 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I am not expert on this. However, it seems to me that in a new build in the countryside that a ground source heat pump is a possibility. The running costs of this should be less and in cold weather it would be more effective.

    Solar is better value every year and again easy to install at the build stage.

    In any case insulate the bejaysus out of the place, it will stay there a long time and will make the place cosier in any case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Neighbour, rural area, has the heat pump in ground system a good few years. What I hear is that it works well but also that it's a bit like the windfarms when there's no wind, you need backup when the weather gets cold and/or cool/windy etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭andyd12


    Why would you need backup to a ground source heat pump when cold?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,086 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Exactly, a ground system should be little affected by the weather, as it draws its heat from the ground. Perhaps something like the moisture content might have an effect, but not the wind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,880 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Perhaps the issue isn't on the heat generation side of the equation but rather on the house heat loss side; i.e. when the weather is colder the heat losses from the house increase enough that the GSHP can't cope (for whatever reason such as hp is poorly set up or incorrectly sized etc)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭andyd12


    That would be case with any heating source.

    It's all about fabric first



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,086 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    As Andyd12 said, the fabric may not be up to scratch, the wind should not be driver of the inside temperature. Which is why it is important for the OP to ensure good insulation etc and the sizing a heat pump becomes feasible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭_Puma_


    For a new build aim for Passive/solar gain then go in order. Size, Orientation, Build method and thermal mass will all come into it and determine how far down you will need to go in this list.

    Insulation->Airtightness membrane -> Heat Recovery ->PV-> Electric Heating ->Solid Fuel -> Heat pump (air) -> Heat pump (ground source) -> Gas -> Oil.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    That list makes zero sense.


    Where did you come up with it?



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Is there any of the house builders here, getting heat loss calculation prepared, as part of heat solution / selection? From the likes of passivhaus?



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