MV Matthew and shipping drugs

Field east

Just heard discussion from senior army officer re seizure of the container ship. A very technical report from the officer that I suggest went over most of our heads. The presenter let him talk away and did not control the discussion

Am wondering if the following questions would be of interest to the general public:-

1 - how many rangers were winched onto the ship and were they all winched from the one helicopter

2- why was it not possible for the guards/customs officers no able to board the ship from a boat

3- how many crew were on the ship.?

4- were one or a number of rangers capable of steering the ship .

5- what was meant by securing all the crew. Lock them into a secure area, ; handcuff them or what?

6 - given that it is a container ship - therefor jam packed with containers and therefor all have to be opened the check for drugs- how come that customs in a matter of circa 18 hours were able to say the value of the drugs on board.

7- did the Irish services - army rangers, et. al - get a tip off from eg . Interpol and they then just go to the ship and check it out

8-the occasion was used to make the case for more assets so that’s can be more successful in catching more such ships /trawlers. Given that there is international survalence of all types going on and sufficient cooperation all around , then how come that This event is rear. So what are we doing with the assets we have ?

9 - all those involved were adequately trained for the task and all had back up services from air and sea and the weather was not very rough so the risk to life was low. The only serious risk to life , IMO, was when the rangers were being lowered onto the ship and would have been very vulnerable re defending themselves . I assume that they did not know if the crew had guns on board that they could use , how many crew were on board and where were they throughout the ship.

AndyBoBandy

2- why was it not possible for the guards/customs officers no able to board the ship from a boat

Those in control of the ship were not cooperating with Naval instructions to stop, and were turning the ship aggressively making a water based boarding operation highly dangerous/impossible given the sheer size of the ship..

whisky_galore

Most of these are never going to be made known to Joe Public for fairly obvious reasons.

ejmaztec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058315751/mv-matthew-and-shipping-drugs

I doubt they'd want to let the public know every intricate detail of what happened and who was involved, not at this stage anyway. All you're ever going to get are snippets.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058315751/mv-matthew-and-shipping-drugs

The Rangers deployed a handful going by images and videos and other sources,it was a time sensitive mission hence why they Gardai played little or no actual role in the boarding,yes the Rangers being deployed might have been vunerable but it's why they are trained to carry out such i missions, they also had cover from the helicopter carrying more armed forces, likely door gunner and snipers,

Boat ran a ground at the weekend and raised 50 red flags the ball started rolling from there

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164053#Comment_121164053

Boat ran a ground at the weekend and raised 50 red flags the ball started rolling from there

It was a separate smaller trawler that ran aground wasn't it? As they believe the MV Matthew was out doing loops off the coast while transferring it's 'cargo' to smaller boats (like this trawler), who were actually bringing the stuff ashore.

10-10-20

4- were one or a number of rangers capable of steering the ship .

At a guess, as it was an adverse boarding and the captain was operating the ship in a offensive manner, the rangers would have secured the bridge and obliged the captain to stop the engines and then relived him of his position by securing him with the rest of the crew. None of the rangers would likely have had pilotage experience up to a container-ship level, so once the ship was secured they would have provisioned a suitably trained pilot to operate the deck while tugs were deployed to bring the ship into Cork harbour.

6 - given that it is a container ship - therefor jam packed with containers and therefor all have to be opened the check for drugs- how come that customs in a matter of circa 18 hours were able to say the value of the drugs on board.

I don't believe that it's a container ship - I believe it's a bulk-carrier.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164138#Comment_121164138

Yeah that's it the Matthew seems to be a significant mothership,I believe some of the crew were trying to burn bales of cocaine when the lads boarded,the navy fired warning shots across it's now too

Viscount Aggro

Will they pursue the gang leaders?

A file will be sent sent to the DPP.

Its estimated 1 - 2% of shipments into Europe are intercepted.

Gatling

Some pics of the lads equipped with night vision goggles and h&K 416A5 rifles

jmcc

"2- why was it not possible for the guards/customs officers no able to board the ship from a boat"

Chasing after a large ship like the MV Matthew in a RIB is a less than optimal approach. The method used was effective. Also, there were multiple helicopters involved.

"9 - all those involved were adequately trained for the task and all had back up services from air and sea and the weather was not very rough so the risk to life was low. The only serious risk to life , IMO, was when the rangers were being lowered onto the ship and would have been very vulnerable re defending themselves . I assume that they did not know if the crew had guns on board that they could use , how many crew were on board and where were they throughout the ship."

There would probably have been a sniper team on overwatch to eliminate any threats to the rangers roping from the helicopter. There was also a navy vessel nearby. The weather wasn't exactly calm either.

Regards...jmcc

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164260#Comment_121164260

And we are a weak link when it's comes to stopping and deterring the boat,

odyssey06

Are there circumstances under which the naval vessel would have tried to fire a disabling shot at the cargo ship?

Seems like the cargo ship just ignored the warning shots if it continued to maneuver aggrresively.

Geuze

2- why was it not possible for the guards/customs officers no able to board the ship from a boat

The freeboard is too high.

Geuze

6 - given that it is a container ship - therefor jam packed with containers and therefor all have to be opened the check for drugs- how come that customs in a matter of circa 18 hours were able to say the value of the drugs on board.

It isn't. It is a bulk carrier.

Geuze

7- did the Irish services - army rangers, et. al - get a tip off from eg . Interpol and they then just go to the ship and check it out

ARW were called in by Customs/Revenue/Naval service.

The ARW had to become Customs Officers, as Customs Officers are allowed board vessels.

It took an hour to appoint the ARW as Customs Officers.

"The Director General of Revenue and Customs’ Operations said provisions in the Customs Act 2015 were used for the first time to appoint Defence Forces personnel as customs officers to go on board and secure the vessel.

Gerry Harrahill said appointed customs officers can board a vessel at sea but because of the weather conditions and the movements of the ship, customs were not equipped to board.

The ship did not comply and he said it became obvious that force was required.

"Our legislation provided for it," he said, "It was the first time we had to use it."

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058315751/mv-matthew-and-shipping-drugs

Mark, Luke and John got through so all good on the streets.

Joe public, snowed with cost of living inflation/childcare costs/ failed heath care etc etc could give a damn about this stuff.

Great to see them getting a chance to see some real action

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164138#Comment_121164138

I'm no expert, but surely a huge ship behaving in that manner only raises suspicion?

It's OK for planes to circle, but not ships. Behaviour like that surely could be picked up by automated monitoring systems? Or with AI they'll stand out in future?

Or perhaps the owners let this one be caught? To get others through?

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164420#Comment_121164420

Yes and no I guess.

Quite normal for ships to wait outside ports for their slot to open up, but to just circle around the Atlantic off the coast of Cork does seem very odd, and would certainly raise suspicions...

I usually see the Irish Ferries Ship WB Yeats just idling around north of Howth once a week as the way the scheduling works, it arrives into it's berth, and it's next scheduled sailing isn't until the next day, so it leaves Dublin Port and just rambles around off the coast of North County Dublin at about 1-2 knots while the other Irish Ferries ships come in and use the same berth....

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164321#Comment_121164321

They fire warning shots usually tracer Rounds first and if they are ignored they fire live rounds across the bow and close to the wheel house, it's mainly used to get the boats to stop or rapidly change course

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164549#Comment_121164549

But ultimately, would they try to hit the wheel house, if the vessel carried on its course?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164526#Comment_121164526

On that the wb Yates is regularly used for training the ARW and Naval forces for boarding exercises at sea

elperello

Congratulations to all personnel involved on a successful mission.

We often get posts on here belittling and running down our armed forces.Some even questioning the need for them.

Yesterday they gave a good account of themselves and did the State some service.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164555#Comment_121164555

I believe that would be next course of action

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164627#Comment_121164627

Apparently Ireland is still seen as a major entry for drugs into Europe. Lot's of coastline and apparently not that well patrolled? I guess they are just trying to look for the weakest link.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164627#Comment_121164627

We often get posts on here belittling and running down our armed forces.Some even questioning the need for them.

Don't worry, give it time and there will be plenty of people coming up with some edgey take on all of this that will rope in migrants, refugees and the housing crisis.

artanevilla

1 - how many rangers were winched onto the ship and were they all winched from the one helicopter - That would be classified for obvious reasons

2- why was it not possible for the guards/customs officers no able to board the ship from a boat - The ship was uncooperative, it would have been dangerous to come alongside a ship not under control. From a risk point of view it makes more sense to board from the air

3- how many crew were on the ship.? - We probably won't know for a while

4- were one or a number of rangers capable of steering the ship . - Unlikely

5- what was meant by securing all the crew. Lock them into a secure area, ; handcuff them or what? - Most likely cable tied and put under armed guard

6 - given that it is a container ship - therefor jam packed with containers and therefore all have to be opened the check for drugs- how come that customs in a matter of circa 18 hours were able to say the value of the drugs on board. - It's a bulk carrier, generally just huge open voids that stuff like stone or grain is stored, the figure may change with further investigation. They may also have been tracking the shipment for a long time and had an idea already as to how much would be expected to be on board.

7- did the Irish services - army rangers, et. al - get a tip off from eg . Interpol and they then just go to the ship and check it out - i believe the ship has been tracked for quite a while in an international effort. With these type of things the plan can change very quickly so at some point the best course of action it was decided was to board from the air. The Ranger Wing are the most qualified in Ireland to do this, it is part of their remit and they would be well trained. Taking over a huge ship is a lot different than taking over a trawler which the Naval service would have done so in the past.

8-the occasion was used to make the case for more assets so that’s can be more successful in catching more such ships /trawlers. Given that there is international surveillance of all types going on and sufficient cooperation all around , then how come that This event is rear. So what are we doing with the assets we have ? - There has probably been cases like this before where it was decided to observe and see what the modus operandi is before attempting anything else, detailed plans drawn up etc.

9 - all those involved were adequately trained for the task and all had back up services from air and sea and the weather was not very rough so the risk to life was low. The only serious risk to life , IMO, was when the rangers were being lowered onto the ship and would have been very vulnerable re defending themselves . I assume that they did not know if the crew had guns on board that they could use , how many crew were on board and where were they throughout the ship. - This is exactly the type of scenario the Ranger Wing is trained for, they training specifically for scenarios where they have little intelligence and a high risk to life. By using trained personnel like special forces, the risk to life is reduced. A "low risk" operation for the Ranger Wing could be an extremely high risk operation for the Naval Service. It is also likely that they had intelligence as to how many crew, arms etc. but for obvious reasons this is classified.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164735#Comment_121164735

The ship was uncooperative, it would have been dangerous to come alongside a ship not under control. From a risk point of view it makes more sense to board from the air

As somebody else said it would have been impossible to board an uncooperative ship from a RIB or other small vessel.

Geuze

3- how many crew were on the ship.?

25

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0927/1407537-cork-wexford-ship-operation/

yagan

There'll be a green party rep along to ask if the bullets were biodegradable.

Field east

But who tipped off customs/Gardai ?. I I hope that customs authority will continue on that practice in future similar operations. Now that the lads from ‘ Colombo’ know what they might face in further shippings they might ‘ up their game’. So the Elite Rangers need to be aware of that possibility .

Gatling

@artanevilla 1 - how many rangers were winched onto the ship and were they all winched from the one helicopter - That would be classified for obvious reasons

Not classified being the AW 139 can carry 8 fully armed troops ,in this case all 8 wouldn't have been dropped as at least one would have provided overwatch with sniper rifle and another door gunner manning the 7.62 FN mag ,

By all accounts this wasn't meticulously planned for months it was a very a rushed job ,I believe one lads was involved may have been wearing trainers at the time ,they deployed rapidly from Waterford, only after a trawler ran a ground very much a short notice operation,

Atlantic Dawn

Will be interesting what will happen to the crew, they would have been all aware something was odd early on in the voyage after it slowed a couple of times crossing the Atlantic. Very little they could do even if they wanted to in alerting authorities along the way.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164839#Comment_121164839

They are recyclable

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164796#Comment_121164796

Usually the operations at Sea especially the ones I've seen they use both ribs and helicopters for carrying out boarding on large vessels, most forces train and use the same methods,

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164877#Comment_121164877

My point still stands. It would be impossible to board an uncooperative ship from a rib.

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164841#Comment_121164841

So the Elite Rangers need to be aware of that possibility

'Thank god your man on boards.ie told us to be aware next time'

I think they'll be alright without your help.

TinyMuffin

Sea was too rough to board it from sea.

couple of shots fired across it bow to let it know they weren’t messing around but still didn’t cooperate and kept goin so only way to bring it under control was board it from the air as quickly as possible before they started throwing stuff overboard.

yagan

This probably kicked off with that small boat that got in trouble Sunday night, it probably didn't take long to deduce that they were waiting on a larger vessel and then any ship loitering with no good cause in the south east came under immediate scrutiny. That's my guess.

TinyMuffin

The lad they bought the trawler off said they were taking straight back to England and they sailed on up the Wexford coast.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164895#Comment_121164895

I'll leave to those who do it regularly to decide this one

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164715#Comment_121164715

Antwerp is, spain next, no patrols there is it?

These drugs are for ireland

why would you bring drugs to Ireland to a rocky outcrop to then have to navigate bringing them to Uk or the mainland

the weakest link is that most cargo is never inspected, theres to much of it and theres always someone who can be paid off

prunudo

There's no way a rib was intercepting that ship lads. For starters it wasn't co-operating and secondly look how high its sitting in the water. Helicopter was the best tool for the job.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164944#Comment_121164944

I would presume the international drug barons would consider the Irish coastline, and once in Ireland they can go via NI to GB.

How protected is the Irish coast anyway. The Irish navy does patrol the coast, but so I hear some ships are not active at the moment.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164961#Comment_121164961

And as it was being boarded from the air, it was making a huge left turn, which would have put any sea boarding party under enormous risk.... simply not worth it when you have a helicoptor that can get boots (and trainers) on deck much easier, quicker & crucially safer...

Its all about risk mitigation.

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164969#Comment_121164969

theres no point just presuming though

look at these lads, patrolling? The ships have trackers onboard

you still have to get on a ferry to the UK.

how much was on the trawler? the rest is going elsewhere

TinyMuffin

I’ve played Call Of Duty so I’m hardly an amateur.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164969#Comment_121164969

6 of our 8 Navy ships are tied up. Customs do have boats but I'm not sure how often they're at sea either - there's one based in Dun Laoghaire, and in years and years of sailing two or three times a week out of there, I've seen it off the dock once or twice.

I would say that our coastline is considered to be largely unprotected, and a piss easy target for landing all sorts.

I sailed to Spain a few years ago, and off the coast of Galicia we were buzzed by a customs plane, and I was assured by the skipper (who had done that trip loads of times) that if there was any query or concern, a boat would arrive along and we'd be boarded (I think he had been once before). There is nothing like that level of surveillance going on here.

Baba Yaga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164923#Comment_121164923

the cargo ship was sitting very high,from the photos she had very little cargo aboard so the freeboard looks to be at least 30ft...way too high to board from a rib especially with a crew that arent co-operating...

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164923#Comment_121164923

A bulk carrier is a totally different design than a car ferry. Have a look at the first 40 seconds of this video, similar ship and weather conditions to yesterday and this is with a co-operating ship...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZCLKq1XVFg

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164923#Comment_121164923

That is a training exercise. the fact they didnt try that should tell you it wasnt an option.