Rental property

mistymarmar

I severed tenants with notice to quit as I was selling my rental property. The property went sale agreed , now the buyer has pulled out. Can I move back into my property for a year and than rent it out again after the year without having to offer it back to original tenant

Boards.ie: Mike

Moving this to a more relevant forum. Boards.ie Help and feedback section is intended for site specific queries.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058315735/rental-property

Do whatever suits you best. Don't forget it is your property. Move in yourself.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058315735/rental-property

I know someone who had a similar situation. The owner de-registered the house with the RTB when the tenants left, got builders in to refurbish and it went sale agreed fairly quickly. Months later the buyers backed out and the owner was left with bills from solicitor and EA for work they did, but the house wasn't sold. RTB said the reason for the termination hadn't happened and the former tenants had a right to be offered the house back if it became available to rent again. Afaik, the regulations say the house has to be sold within nine months and it was well over a year from the tenants leaving until the buyers backed out, but the owner contacted the former tenants anyway to let them know the sale fell through and the house was not going back on the rental market. Not sure if that was a requirement of the RTB or the owner just did it to cover himself. Family members are living in the house now but I don't see how there would be a problem if the house was let again at market rates after a few years. The RTB only require information about a property when a tenancy is registered.

meijin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058315735/rental-property

No. If it didn't sell within 9 months you need to offer it back to the last tenants.

spaceHopper

Just put it back on the market and if needed move in yourself for security reasons. You'd made the decision to sell so follow through with it. Keep records to show you are selling it and that the first sale fell through. If you want to legally rent it again you can only set the rent at the last rent or maybe 2% more. You should offer it to the last tenants, there is a good chance they found somewhere they might say no. If you want to increase the rent to market rate you have to so substantial building work or leave it idle for 2 years.

There is nothing to stop your last tenant from checking the property price register or daft every so often. Play it by the book as you will get caught.

Them is the joys of been a landlord

MakersMark

The requirement is not that it be sold within 9 months, but that a Contract for sale be entered into.

dennyk

The sample notice and statutory declaration from the RTB cover the details. If you do not enter into an enforceable agreement to sell the property within nine months of the termination date, you must offer the tenant the opportunity to re-occupy the property. If they decline or don't respond within seven days, then you're free to do whatever you'd like with the property (though if you rent it out again within two years of the previous tenancy ending, RPZ regulations would still apply to the rent you could charge, even with a new tenant).

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172196#Comment_121172196

If the landlord intends to change the use of the property, ie. the property is to be used as a home for him or any of his immediate family then he is perfectly entitled to do so.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172261#Comment_121172261

Absolutely, the owner can change the use and use it for himself.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172655#Comment_121172655

But that wasn't the reason the tenant was evicted.

The tenant was evicted on the basis that the house would be sold. The house was not sold.

I'm not au fait with the legislation, but I wonder what would happen if the tenant was to check the PPR and not see the house listed. Would they have a case against the landlord.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172668#Comment_121172668

I am watching this house sold one year and half. One year and half property register are not reflecting this sale. So you figure out. How would a former tenant have a leg to stand by watching PPR.

The house I mentioned is definitely sold yet the price not showing anywhere.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172730#Comment_121172730

Yeh, I have no idea, and it's likely a non-issue. There are many other ways a tenant could find out if a particular house was sold.

Claw Hammer

You need to be careful with the PPR. A misspelled address and your search wont show it. THe PPR is compiled from stamp duty returns which in turn takes its data from the LPT. The PPR regards PK and Pard as different addresses. Sometimes the address picked up a misspelling somewhere. Palmerstown rather thjan Palmerston for example.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172668#Comment_121172668

A case for what exactly?

You think the tenant is entitled to stay in a house that someone else owns and because the owner once upon a time rented it to the tenant the tenant should have priority over the actual owner or his immediate family even though they have nowhere to go?

Too many people have lost the plot when it comes to property owners rights. This is Ireland not North Korea.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173424#Comment_121173424

You're correct! It's not North Korea, it's Ireland.

Here's the statutory declaration:

1.     I will offer you the opportunity to re-occupy the dwelling under a tenancy if:

a)     I do not enter into the agreement to sell within the period of 9 months beginning on:

·    The expiry of the period of notice given by the notice of termination that accompanies this statutory declaration (“the notice of termination”), or

·    The final determination of a dispute, if a dispute in relation to the validity of the notice of the termination has been referred to the Residential Tenancies Board (“RTB”) for resolution under Part 6 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 (as amended) (the “Act”), and

b)    The tenancy to which the notice of termination relates has not otherwise been validly terminated on the grounds specified at paragraphs 1, 1A, 2 or 6 of the Table to the Act (namely because the tenant has breached his/her obligations, failed to pay rent, the dwelling is no longer suitable for the accommodation needs of the occupying household or the landlord intends to change the use of the property).

 

2.     I understand that I must make reasonable inquiries to obtain the tenant’s contact details for the purposes of offering the tenant a tenancy if the conditions in paragraph 2 are met. If I am unable to contact the tenant, I must contact the RTB who will assist in seeking and providing contact details for the tenant.

There you have it, if you evicted a tenant based on intent to sell, and you didn't sell, you are obligated to offer the tenant another tenancy.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting-a-home/tenants-rights-and-responsibilities/if-your-landlord-wants-you-to-leave/#:~:text=If%20your%20landlord%20ends%20your%20tenancy%20because%20they%20are%20selling,expiry%20of%20your%20notice%20period.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173731#Comment_121173731

This "if the owner doesn't enter into an agreement to sell within 9 months" is a bit vague tbf. Does that mean once the house is vacated it must go on the market within 9 months or it must be sale agreed within 9 months.

If the notice was to sell the house and it was never put on the market, ie no EA appointed or no ads on property websites, then it could be argued that selling was not the reason.

OTOH, if an owner signs a contract with an estate agent to sell, does that cover that requirement? Then if it's advertised and a sale doesn't happen for whatever reason eg bad location, needs too much work, price not achieved etc, then where does that leave an owner who doesn't want to be a landlord again.

Ginger83

what if it was voluntarily surrendered to a bank? How could they offer it back then?

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173731#Comment_121173731

Read your own post again now and in particular the last part of paragraph 1 b.

If the owner of the house decides his house is no longer intended to be let to anyone because he (or any of his immediate family) need the house for their own use then their is absolutley no obligation for the owner or his immediate family to be homeless because some tenant thinks they are entitled to stay there as long as they desire.

Tenants have rights but the property owner also has rights and if you think a property owner is not entitled to stay in their own property you have no clue what you are on about. You are being blinded to common sense by RTB waffle.

Do you think anyone now being housed in a 4 star hotel has a right to stay there as long as they want just because they have stayed there as a guest of the owner?

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173927#Comment_121173927

However the term "landlord intends to change the use of the property" is in a different section to the "landlord requires dwelling for own or family" on the RTB website, and the example given is a change from residential to commercial premises.

I don't think one equals the other.

As I said, I'm not au fait, but if I was a tenant who wanted to get back into the property, I would be making a call to the RTB.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174089#Comment_121174089

You could make all the claims you want but you won't be able to evict the owner (or his immediate family) from their own home and neither will the RTB.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174123#Comment_121174123

Maybe not, but a tenant could get a sizeable payment.

Heres one from a month ago.

Tenants told the property was to be sold, but the landlord rented it to someone else.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2023/08/17/landlord-must-pay-7000-damages-to-tenant-over-unlawful-eviction/

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174211#Comment_121174211

Completely different scenario. In the situation under discussion the ex tenant wouldn't get a bean. I've spent enough time trying to educate you Padre, I'm going to bow out of this meaningless chat.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172196#Comment_121172196

If a property was under final negotiations, the legal processes were on-going (we all know that can drag on interminably), it is nine months after the termination date but the legal contract hadn't yet been signed, is there an obligation on the landlord to back out of the sale deal and offer it back to the former tenant? I thought an enforceable agreement is when the contracts are signed. That sounds like a crazy regulation.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174211#Comment_121174211

This attitude of what payment could a tenant get is what made so many landlords to sell. The more landlords leave, the bigger competition on fewer rented accommodation, the higher the price everyone pays. It's ridiculous to say a tenant has more rights than the owner.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174322#Comment_121174322

It's not different at all. Landlord evicts tenant based on intent to sell and doesn't sell. There's nothing on RTB or citizens info that I see that says the landlord can just choose to move into the property if they evicted the tenant for a different reason. Doesn't matter that he owns the property, a landlord is bound by legislation.

You just saying that it's different is no proof at all.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174932#Comment_121174932

It's not an attitude, it's the law.

If landlords are unhappy with the laws they have every right to leave the business and all power to them.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174959#Comment_121174959

Tbf the only thing the regulations says is a landlord has to offer it back to the tenant. That doesn't preclude him or family from moving in. If the tenant takes up the offer then thats a different situation.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121175110#Comment_121175110

Poor ol' Padre Pio has gone down a rabbit hole and is very confused and unwilling to learn the facts which are, the the ex tenant is entitled to be offered the house to rent again IF the house is going back on the rental market.

If the owner of the house (or his immediate family) choses to live in the house then that of course is their perogative.