Environmental crisis- is personal effort futile?

Sunny Disposition

It seems very hard to believe that my action I take will make any difference at all, that it’s all on Governments to regulate and hopefully make a difference.

Also how bad are private cars really. If electricity used to power them is carbon neutral is there any real impact? It seems to me sometimes like we have lost the run of ourselves and have stopped building infrastructure we need for fairly spurious reasons.

SuperBowserWorld

The entire manufacturing and maintenance cost carbon wise and environment wise for a car is huge. Think of all the raw material extraction, transport, manufacturing, sales, marketing, maintenance, road building, road maintenance, tax, insurance, ...

But that applies to a lot of things we consume. Our whole culture and economy is based on over consumption and "infinite" growth.

The government can't handle essential back operations for little children. They are not going to solve the destruction of the planet by forcing you into a bus. People have to want to save the environment for the next generations. Actually want to do that first.

Capt'n Midnight

Carbon Footprint was a "look over there" campaign, IIRC by BP. Feel guilty rather than challenging corporations and their 1% shareholders.

https://xkcd.com/2832

Title text: If they're going to make people ride bikes and scooters in traffic, then it should at LEAST be legal to do the Snow Crash thing where you use a hook-shot-style harpoon to catch free rides from cars.

uch

I used to over consume a lot but I got too fat

TinyMuffin

Typing on the internet damages the environment. The amount of power data centres consume. It’s all a waste of time.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167287#Comment_121167287

Turn off you're device for god's sake man! Memo to self, turn off own device for god's sake.

Padre_Pio

Governments have to encourage growth and consumption so wages get higher and people stay happy, while at the same time reducing consumption and curtailing growth to meet climate targets.

It's an impossible challenge, so that's why we have contradictory message of buying more energy efficient stuff = better for the environment.

Meanwhile people honestly don't give two figs and are happy to blame China/UK/USA or just pretend like it's all a conspiracy.

j2

Ireland as a whole could barely make a detectible impact if we went back to the stone age, the idea that an individual has the ability to make any impact whatsoever is basically a supernatural belief system.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167955#Comment_121167955

the idea that an individual has the ability to make any impact whatsoever is basically a supernatural belief system

This is it in a nutshell

The green agenda is this whole idea that humans can in some way alter something that has been happening for millions of year on earth, the heating and cooling, the changing of climates.

Nothing on earth is static and has never been, but people think that it has to be static and the way things are now has to be preserved because those that come after us will not be able to live in the world as it is then.

It's complete arrogant bollix.

We cannot change the way the earth works and the people and living things that come after us, be it a much bigger or smaller population will deal with the earth they live in and adapt to the earth they live in, just like it's been for millions of years.

Sunny Disposition

I do 100% believe in global warming, but I don't believe I can make any difference at all, that it's 100% up to Governments.

And I don't get the obsession with vehicles if they're all going to be electric quite soon.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168148#Comment_121168148

so you think the scientists who believe the planet is warming due to human activity are all wrong?

dxhound2005

I have an arrangement with a neighbour. He protests outside my house because I am using electricity and I have a car. I protest outside his house because he uses gas and he has two cars. We both feel happy because we are addressing the problem at grassroots level.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167955#Comment_121167955

That's not true, the idea is that everyone makes positive changes. Besides, Ireland is part of the EU, so we will move in lockstep with EU legislation.

The EU is the third biggest polluter (7% of total emissions) after US (14%) and China (27%) At the end of the day everyone has to do their part.

But China is an anomaly, it's got x3.5 the population of the EU, and manufactures most of the world's products. So most of the world has simply offloaded their carbon emissions to China, then cries that we shouldn't bother curtailing emissions until China does.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168730#Comment_121168730

And where did I say that ?

I believe that the planet is warming due to human activity and that the humans that come after us will adapt to that warmer planet.

Just like for hundreds of thousands of years humans and other living things have adapted to a warming or cooling planet.

Climates are not static, they never have been, they never will be, so this generation should stop all this arrogant BS and let people get on with it.

I've no problem with a cleaner planet, with recycling, with the green spaces, but don't give me bollix like the Irish beef or any others country's beef industry has to be decimated because of what the next generation may or may not have to do.

The next generation will figure it out for themselves, they will be as smart if not smarter than us.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168843#Comment_121168843

well you said

The green agenda is this whole idea that humans can in some way alter something that has been happening for millions of year on earth, the heating and cooling, the changing of climates.

so maybe I misunderstood but that to me says that you think humans can't alter the climate

brokenbad

Define Irony.....

Green Party TD Pippa Hackett pontificating about "Climate Change" while driving around in a diesel guzzling Range Rover.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168866#Comment_121168866

Ok, I should have been clearer, when I said "alter" I should have said "reverse"

The earth is constantly changing, we should not assume that we can halt, slow down or reverse that change.

Let that change happen and let humanity adjust.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168896#Comment_121168896

So? She lives on a farm, maybe she needs it? Should we expect all Green party TDs to cycle everywhere and wear hemp clothing?

It's as ridiculous as people calling Greta Thunberg a hypocrite because she took a journey on an airplane.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168915#Comment_121168915

i don't think scientists are basing things on assumptions, there's a lot of research gone into proving that greenhouse gases are causing the planet to heat up rather quickly, and that if we reduced the amount of GHG we're emitting the heating would slow down so as to not be quite as catastrophic as it probably will be.

it will be pretty hard to adjust to not being able to grow food and all kinds of natural disasters.

brokenbad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168921#Comment_121168921

The key word on my post is "pontificating" - if she did a bit less of that, then she would be less of a hypocrite.....

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168952#Comment_121168952

Pontificating is pretty much the job description of any TD, and pontificating about climate change is the Green Party raison d'etre.

Would you be more inclined to listen to her if she turned up to events on a bicycle?

Sunny Disposition

The Green Party have done too much pontificating for sure, and a huge swathe of Ireland has dismissed them as pompous, superior and totally out of touch.

It's a pity really, obviously we need sound environmental policies. But you need relatable people to advocate for them. The Greens don't have that type of talent.

dxhound2005

It doesn't matter what the policies are, if you won't follow them because you think that is futile.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168949#Comment_121168949

I don't doubt the research, I don't doubt the science.

What I do doubt is that the outcome of climate change will be catastrophic.

It will change a hell of a lot with regards to the lives people live, the food they eat and when they eat it, the places they live etc.

But generations will adapt, and we are as technologically advanced as we every have been and will only get more advanced, we are in a better spot to adapt to climate change as anyone has been in history.

Climate change is inevitable, it has always been, so let it happen and adjust instead for trying to stop and reverse it.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169197#Comment_121169197

Do you agree that humans are causing the climate to change at a rate faster than seen before?

Can you foresee that there are massive challenges to world populations that could destabilise governments and change life as we know it?

Are you fine with all this?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169197#Comment_121169197

well all signs are pointing towards it being pretty bloody catastrophic, hold on to your hat!

i mean we import most of the food we eat in ireland, and our farmed animals are heavily reliant on imported feed, what happens when problems like the floods in greece and droughts in iberia keep getting worse worldwide and we become more and more food insecure? we're not even mitigating for these things in ireland, it's crazy

food and other resource shortages caused by extreme weather is going to turn humanity into one hell of a mess

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169295#Comment_121169295

Do you agree that humans are causing the climate to change at a rate faster than seen before?

No I don't agree

Because 15,000 to 19,000 years ago a large ice sheet over Eurasia retreated at 2,000 feet per day, 20 times faster than the current ice sheet retreat rate.

Link here

https://www.upi.com/Science_News/2023/04/06/norway-study-ice-age-data-reveals-fast-ice-melt/2801680752373/

How did that happen without all the cars and factories and human consumption we have now ?

Your question about "massive challenges to world populations that could destabilise governments and change life as we know it" is interesting.

You see the green agenda are hung up about "life as we know it"

But it's not about "life as we know it", it's about "life as future generations know it", and we should not be so arrogant to think that "life as we know it" should be the "life as future generations know it".

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169345#Comment_121169345

I don't know about the import statement you just threw out there but we are seen as the second most food secure country on the planet

Link

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/ireland-ranks-second-in-global-food-security-index-2022/

As for " happens when problems like the floods in Greece and droughts in Iberia keep getting worse worldwide", I don't know, maybe we will be aware of all this and make changes to adapt to it ?

Find more efficient ways to produce, use technology, you know adapt.

Or would culling the beef herd be the best way to ensure food security ?

Strumms

In my place currently…

The only electrical items plugged in are certain electronics that the manufacturers deem are essential to have power…. Such as my TV satellite boxes …. Fridge freezer, etc…. 🤪

Im not a regular public transport user as my main destinations… shops, gym, two restaurants / pubs are not conveniently served by public transport…. They either involve significant walk to a bus stop or having alighted, a significant walk from a bus stop… vehicle is a modern hybrid.

heating is amongst the most green sources of energy available. Windows are triple glazed, place has great modern insulation….

all very well the government lecturing ordinary citizens…. When they are doing SFA about businesses and indeed…

offering hundreds of thousands of people into the country while kicking the Dublin metro ( which will seriously reduce car journeys and pollution ) years down the road to 2035 “ at the earliest “ shows you what the priorities are, their priority is not the environment, currently or in the future….

so I’m not going to sit listening to lectures from people, be they in government or just anymore irregular thinking citizens.

Either they put up, or shut up…. 🤌🏻 my personal effort is reasonable and appropriate ….

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169361#Comment_121169361

So your response is that you don't care because you'll be dead by then.

Fair enough.

brokenbad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168971#Comment_121168971

Yes i would - but only if she wore a Hemp coat also 😎