Question about Fees before/after drawings

redoctober

Hi there,

I've met with a couple of architects about an extension project recently. One came out and measured up and did all that and went away and did up designs which we weren't that happy with. He came back and talked them through with us too. All this for no fee.

Another came and looked at the property and had a conversation. Was due to come back but was too busy.

The latest guy came and discussed possibilities and gave a fee proposal to proceed with plans and planning but for a fee of roughly 2500 with half that as deposit.

My question is whether it's normal to commit to a fee without seeing any drawings at all? I'm thinking of asking for at least some sketches/a rough outline of his ideas before we commit to spending a couple of grand.

I would like to hear people's experiences/input. Thanks very much.

mynewshoes

100% of the time its agree fees then do the work (or part of the work) then pay in stages or in full.

How could a business survive if you got paid if the client wanted to pay you? Is the person not entitled to payment for their time/ work.

A good architect should build a detailed brief with you so they know exactly what you need and what you like then prepare some designs. If you are not happy most architects will work with you within reason (it cant go on for years).

I really doubt the first person (that developed the design before agreeing fees was a qualified architect. Actually, no way were they!

Make sure you like their work, understand what they are offering and review their fees in detail.

Design and planning for 2.5k is cheap as chips......probably not a qualified architect either!

Good architects charge between 7-9% (could be more depending on location) of the proposed contract sum ex vat.

So if you have budget of €150,000 then I would expect a fee of 8k-10k to planning (for a qualified architect).

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058314637/question-about-fees-before-after-drawings

There is no set format. Some will present high level concept in order to win work, others won't be comfortable doing design work for free. It really depends on a number of factors. Depends on what your brief mostly, and how strongly you are set in your vision.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137574#Comment_121137574

Some of that is correct, but not all of it imo.

100% of the time its agree fees then do the work (or part of the work) then pay in stages or in full.

That is the norm, but it's certainly not true that there is never any design work done before fees are secured. Including sketches with fee proposals is not uncommon. At the top end, large practises often have to undertake weeks of unpaid work to win a large project (not talking about domestic extensions).

How could a business survive if you got paid if the client wanted to pay you? Is the person not entitled to payment for their time/ work.

Simply via a contract. How much work they do to secure a contract is a business decision for them.

A good architect should build a detailed brief with you so they know exactly what you need and what you like then prepare some designs. If you are not happy most architects will work with you within reason (it cant go on for years).

Most will be flexible and work with a client. But it's simply untrue to say that all architects/designers will work with all clients. Some architects was be inflexible on some issues, some clients can be unmanageable. Not all pairs are compatible.

I really doubt the first person (that developed the design before agreeing fees was a qualified architect. Actually, no way were they!

Or maybe they just are having a slow period. If they haven't got a full week of billable work to invest in, they should absolutely be investing that time in BD. We really don't know how much of a design was produced. I doubt it was complete.

Make sure you like their work, understand what they are offering and review their fees in detail.

Design and planning for 2.5k is cheap as chips......probably not a qualified architect either!

Agree on both.

Good architects charge between 7-9% (could be more depending on location) of the proposed contract sum ex vat.

So if you have budget of €150,000 then I would expect a fee of 8k-10k to planning (for a qualified architect).

There are a few factors, but for small scale that % is about correct for a high quality design.

But 75% of the fee to planning. That would be a pretty large red flag for me, unless that had a track record of producing 100% docs for planning.