Staff approached by management to apply for promotional posts

Peter Flynt

I'm aware of a school whereby individual staff are approached by senior management and/or former senior management and it is recommended or suggested to them that they should be looking to apply for upcoming promotional posts that other staff are applying for who are not approached.

Miraculously it ends up being the case that the approached staff end up getting the posts with evidence from the appeals process that unapproached excellent teachers with long experience are receiving poor marks in the interview process by the principal during previous interviews.

What is your opinion on this?

ethical

It happens regularly! Rotten to the core! Is it any wonder there is such an exodus of teachers to far away places. I was that soldier in that I applied for a post and even went as far as contacting the Chair of the Interview Board after the interview when I had been informed that I did not get the post.(The principal told me this was the person to contact as they would be aware of my marks in the interview.)I did tell the principal that my reason for doing it was that should I be in the position to apply for a post again I'd be better equipped.

I laughed to myself when I finally managed to track down the Chair.I did have,lets call the person,Mal's number,but between 'phone busy',away,letting phone ring out etc,it was the best part of a week before I got talking to him! He picked a figure out of his rather large rear end and furnished me with it....just one figure,no breakdown of how it was arrived at!

I was fully aware that the whole thing was set up as other people were 'told to apply'. Infact one candidate went as far as doing a full shop as regards clothing/fashion for the 'new position' even before the interview had taken place.The appeals procedure was an even more farcical event but let us say I represented myself well enough....and sure didn't Mal and the rest of them get their expenses for the two days while I had to get cover for my classes.I did get a post later with what seemed a fair and open interview process,none of the 'gang' happened to be on duty,then again it was a different regime.

Unfortunately no other career in Ireland is as laden with incendiary devices as a teaching career....from the so called experts in charge of recruitment.They have done this for the last 30 years and probably for many years previous to this. I know a few on Gold Plated Pensions who are serial Interview Board attendees.... a couple of them are now in their 80s,yes,thats not a mis print,80s!!!,they have no shame and more importantly,unfortunately, they are ill advised as to the present classroom and how it works.....but sure they get their expenses and that's all that counts! I'll scratch your back if you lick my behind.As I have said many times before: the most important people in any school are the students and the 2nd most important people are the teachers..........some day someone will listen but I'm not holding my breath!!

Random sample

It’s called ‘building leadership capacity’. Though they are supposed to encourage all staff to go for them, not just the favourites.

rainbowtrout

There's an AP1 post coming up in my school. A teacher was talking to the principal about it last week and let it be known she was applying for the post. The principal told her straight out that he had it earmarked for a named man on staff. The principal will of course be on the interview panel.

It's absolutely farcical at this stage in my ETB.

scrubs33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121134497#Comment_121134497

Word for word the exact same happened in my place (male principal) recently except I was told the post was earmarked for a woman because there had never been a female AP1. Other posts have gone to neighbours, club annd team mates etc. Unless there’s a comprehensive audit of interview procedures, boards and marks stories like these will become the norm, even more so than they are now.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121134497#Comment_121134497

She should still apply.

I have not applied for many posts as I've known I wouldn't get them yet I sort of regret not applying.

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137059#Comment_121137059

She has. It's kinda backfired on the principal because the guy he pegged for it didn't apply. 😀

joebloggs32

Its funny that a system that operated on seniority was thrown out, and now we have a system wide open to cronyism that is supposed to be better!

There are some horror stories floating around with some.people only in the door being appointed yet staff with decades of service bring passed over.

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121140763#Comment_121140763

Yes, and just a random mark put on paper, no justification for the mark, no commentary or breakdown to show how that mark was arrived at. It's more than just principals are the problem though, while they are the central problem for a lot of it. There are people who sit on interview boards and are quite happy to sign off on all of this, despite what they see happening at the interviews. And there are ETBs who are not obliged to put the principal on the panel and despite multiple appeals from a school, which indicates something is amiss, the principal is put on the panel again the next time.

noplacehere

I will say there is also the opposite. Principals in ETBs who absolutely refuse to get involved in the process due to "fairness" and staff have gone in and lied their heads off to the interview panel of external people. So the best liar gets the job as opposed to the people doing the job. To the point that apparently in a recent set of interviews I heard about two different staff claimed to have headed up the same committee in a school....

Treppen

It's a dirty game, and kind of sad when you think of the pittance of reward and the illusion of prestige.

Seniority was the best way.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121143920#Comment_121143920

The principal not on the interview panel is no issue - one phone call sorts that out.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145997#Comment_121145997

A lot better than what's in place now anyway imo

Years of being a decent teacher can and does count for nothing at times, I think its fairly demotivating....at least if it was somewhat seniority based there would be less bad feeling

Some of the people that seemed most put out by seniority in my old place were some men/women for greasy pole climbing and screw anyone that got in the way....its ultimately damaging to the ahem "community of learners" I'm convinced the powers that be only pay lip service to....they'd grind people into the dust if they could and feck the community.

That was that hypocritical shite that convinced me to do something else

On the one hand it'd all positive mental health, community of learners messaging.....on the other hand it's actions like shockingly poor "reform" which is basically bean counting cost saving/budget cutting measures based on dubious at best "educational research" coupled with kneejerk reactions to hysterical media public commentary about stress or project work and implementing complete bolox that increases stress for student and teacher alike and a constant attempt to introduce more and more busywork and have everyone running around taking part in arse covering competitions etc

The posts imo are also a good way to break up a staff into another sub group.....a tediously predictable inevitable move to divide and conquer over time...wont be long until teaching has turned into an average 5 year stepping stone that no one will want to stay in long term as they scramble for an out....but yeah, community of learners, don't be a negative nelly, attitude of gratitude, mindfulness etc, look the other way while we slowly **** up your working environment.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121149258#Comment_121149258

I can tell you what's going on near where I work. ;)

Principal arrived some years ago. Not in the slightest bit interested in classroom teaching or quality of teaching. All about themselves and, literally, EVERYTHING is PR and what goes on outside the school. Same teachers regularly congratulated over the intercom for tours or sports or extracurricular activity as a hint to those who concentrate on their teaching. Teachers approached to set up various committees, ECA and other unpaid stuff with more 'hint hint' behind it. Principal identifies staff that they like (as they are in the same drinking/social clique), employs PMEs and gives hours off to the favourites, gives the personal favourites personal days as others are queried vociferously, gets DPs to approach the favourites as posts become available......and the other two thirds of the staff are effectively ignored.

Icsics

Peter I could have written that post! PR is the name of the game & the truth stretched so far to be almost an outright lie!! Senior experienced teachers seen as a threat to a young & inexperienced management, 3 staff meetings a year where these teachers are snapped at & shot down if anything remotely seen as questioning is said. Plenty lipservice to ‘teaching & learning’ but buses to matches would be given precedence over buying of textbooks! Inflated grades have masked the issues for a few years & a hoodwinked board & chair, who will be returned again soon for her great experience!

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150374#Comment_121150374

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150429#Comment_121150429

Sing it!

My suspicion is that management have identified a number of goals to achieve during the current administration, possibly with a view to moving even further up the ladder. These goals are all highly visible to the public, always at the cost of academic progress.

A growing number of teachers have timetables full of SEN or pastoral care, or classes of six or seven students for exciting new subjects, while class sizes for everything else are static at 30. The least valued contribution anybody can make to the day-to-day life of the school is to teach classes full of kids, correct homework, manage discipline and then show up and do it all again the next day.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150461#Comment_121150461

Yea. . . . I've noticed the principal's favourites have taken a newfound interest in SEN stuff with hours on their timetable. Yet the jobs have been handed out as she's ageist (weird considering the principal is the oldest on the staff) and doesn't appoint anyone under the age of 40 to posts or is reluctant to do so. Therefore there won't be any jobs for the younger generation (in their 20s) or for the next principal to distribute. . . .

Icsics

The trend is to move on & up after approx 3/4 years, stay any longer & there’s a very real chance they’ll be exposed. We had an NQT move from DP & then P during Covid. We’ve had solid experienced teachers going for mgt roles, but 20+ years in the classroom is questioned, they’d rather give it to someone untested, who can tick the LAOS boxes & perform in an interview for 10 mins.

e87228722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058314575/staff-approached-by-management-to-apply-for-promotional-posts

My opinion, a lot of people in Ireland got their job because of political connections, thats across the board including the veiled SF. Now these people owe someone and they return the favor. Thats how we work.

Enoch. whats the teachers general view on him? that be a kindof indicator.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150514#Comment_121150514

Well we won't derail the thread by talking about Burke. Political/GAA connections are rife among teaching but there's also other stuff going on as I stated above.

spurious

Mod: Let's leave Enoch out of it. He gets enough attention as it is.

e87228722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150739#Comment_121150739

Is that not called censorship? he is a teacher and also has issues with the system as it is.

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150775#Comment_121150775

No, it's called keeping the thread on topic.

Since you are apparently new, I will ignore the questioning of moderation on thread.

Please read the rules.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055731670/charter-and-important-links-updated-27-03-2015#latest

ethical

It is fine ticking boxes if the groundwork is done but unfortunately the work is not being done! Better job satisfaction and career prospects with one of the German supermarkets!

I've noted that the teacher that comes in every day and actually teaches are getting fewer and fewer and for the most part are being ignored when it comes to PR.

As one of my colleagues remarked on a colleague that got a 'promotion' recently: He did feck all....but he did it well!!!!.................(.And that is an accurate description of the system in our schools!)

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150374#Comment_121150374

Do you work in my school??!!!

Newbie20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145997#Comment_121145997

“The illusion of prestige”, fantastic way of putting it. It makes me laugh when every assembly etc in school they get the APs to do jobs and they are seated in a certain area to show that they are more important than us other mere teachers. Imagine just being a teacher like!

The funny thing is they’re getting lots of work to do all for €40 a week. Give me a 1 hour grind any day. (Nothing against anyone that has an AP and maybe I’ll go for one some day but the idea that it is “middle management” is a bit of a joke.) And worst of all, the idea that you are somehow lacking ambition if you’ve no interest in extra work for pittance.