Dispatches channel 4 expose **Read Opening Post before posting**

furiousox

Ah boards, becoming more and more like twitter (x) by the day. 😃

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132091#Comment_121132091

Broaddrick later said she had perjured herself because she felt under too much pressure. Her story is that she liad under oath and, like I said, she maintains to this day that Bill Clinton raped her. As contradictory as that is, that's her story. Is she lying now or confused?

Several other women accused Clinton of sexual assault as well.

I'm not whatabouting, I'm providing the wider context that you're claiming doesn't exist because it doesn't suit your agenda.

Mitterand, Kouchner, Hillary Clinton, Clinton's other defenders dismissing credible allegations of rape.

geospatial

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132060#Comment_121132060

Everyone is entitled to the presumption of innocence, even a dirtbag like Russell Brand.

None of us have heard the evidence as it would be presented in court, people are entitled to their opinions on media reports. It's not as if various media outlets haven't gotten things wrong in the past.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132088#Comment_121132088

You're trying to silence discussion of the obvious issues this case brings up in regard to hatred of women within the right wing conspiracy world. That's an attack on free speech and a demand that people be undeservedly politically correct towards a worldview which is deeply toxic and deserves to be exposed for what it is.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132119#Comment_121132119

If they are wrong then Brand can sue them. He would have benefit of the doubt in such a trial in the UK. Same applies to anyone falsely accused.

Nor did Brand seek an injunction.

Brand has the means to pursue such remedies.

Your default reaction is to discredit the accusations.

You show no registering of the fact that there are many many more rapes and assaults that actually occur than come to a criminal trial and can be prosecuted to a guilty verdict. Your posts zero concern for such outcomes.

These accusations have not been made lightly. It is the result of long detailed investigation into multiple accusations by multiple media outlets.

Could they be wrong? Yes. But at present all the plausibility sits with C4 / The Times. And that is what I base my current opinion on, caveated that it has not been tested in court.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132114#Comment_121132114

The theory that Clinton is raped Juanita Broaddrick is based on discounting the alleged victim's own sworn testimony. You're either for due process or you're not.

I don't automatically believe every allegation against somebody, each should be examined on their merits. I was prepared to offer Tara Reade a fair hearing in her allegations against Joe Biden based on listening to what she had to say and she got a fair hearing from the US media including the New York Times but her allegations were completely inconsistent to the point of fantastical, they simply didn't stand up at all and that's widely agreed now.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132132#Comment_121132132

Trying to silence discussion??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No I'm not. I'm replying to you and giving you a real discussion.

I'm not attacking your right to free speech - I'm challenging the specific points you're making with points of my own but you're free to ignore them, or respond back with counter-arguments or whatever.

The thread is about Dispatches expose of Russell Brand.

It isn't necessarily about the very specific political conclusions you want people to draw from it.

You don't have to be politically correct to anyone on my behalf. I'm just saying I don't think that 'right wing conspiracism' is uniquely toxic over and above human nature and political self-interest generally. I've given credible examples of what I mean and you've tried to spin them as best you can.

I'm not drowning out what you're trying to say but the thread isn't your personal monologue either. People can disagree strongly which I'm doing.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132123#Comment_121132123

No it doesn't, that's absolutely ludicrous. I believe them because their stories are credible and they come through extremely credible channels.

It appears your default is to disbelieve women.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132161#Comment_121132161

You're clearly uncomfortable with any discussion about how the right wing conspiracy world has automatically dismissed extremely credible rape accusations against one of its major figures as a conspiracy.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132156#Comment_121132156

She says she lied under oath so discounting her sworn testimony is pretty straightforward - its just a matter of accepting that she perjured herself, which is what she says now.

I do believe in due process and I would be scandalised if Bill Clinton saw a day in prison for that. Double jeopardy protections are important.

That's the legal-technical part of it, but doesn't mean that and other multiple accusations by several women are all false.

These women seemed to get shoddy treatment from Bill Clinton's supporters and handlers at the time, was my main point anyway.

nacho libre

https://metro.co.uk/2023/09/19/piers-morgan-asked-russell-brand-about-being-sexual-predator-in-interview-19525495/

Piers wasn't expecting that follow up from her.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132180#Comment_121132180

You're trying to make political hay from those accusations, as I said. You're making hay while the sun shines.

If you want to make it about partisan political tendencies then of course you should expect pushback.

Lurkers can decide if you're a disinterested defender of women or someone with an agenda. I think you're being extremely tendentious.

As for free speech, I'm not shutting you down in any way.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132213#Comment_121132213

What Piers said made no sense, asking Brand '' are you a more successful sexual predator, now that you don't drink'' , and then Piers adds, '' I didn't have any info about him, I dunno why I asked that question.

It makes no sense, that would be like Piers asking Harry Kane '' '' are you a more successful sexual predator, now that you've moved to Germany''

He would not think to ask that question to Harry Kane, so why did he think to ask it of Brand

growleaves

Also have you even been reading the thread?

I myself quoted Sam Leith criticising the 'right wing conspiracy world' for their 'naive cycicism' and said Tucker Carlson and others made the wrong call here.

Clearly I am not uncomfortable with any discussion about it. I just think your spin on it is excessive and I'm saying so.

skimpydoo

Back in the late 1970's Johnny Rotten did an interview with BBC Radio that was never aired because it dared mention Jimmy Saville and his seediness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjy8oLVOvi4

It was well known in TV, Music and Radio circles but nothing was done, and when he died it all came out.

Like Saville, it looks like it was known in TV, Movie and Comedy circles that Brand was a predator. You have female comedians setting up a WhatsApp group to warn each other about Brand and others like him. All the women who have made allegations appear to be credible and are not in it for the money.

If Brand is innocent he will take this to court but I know he won't as he knows he will lose especially as more allegations are popping out of the woodwork.

Raysin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132123#Comment_121132123

We're talking about ONE man with a well established pattern of behaviour that was so well known that his colleagues called him a predator, it assumes nothing of all accused men. The women involved gave extremely credible accounts in that documentary, so there's no hate involved in forming the opinion that this particular man did some very violent and nasty things. I believe the women. An opinion isn't a verdict.

Nobody should be falsely accused and miscarriages of justice are tragedies for those involved. Equally, nobody should have to live their lives knowing their rapist is never going to be held accountable.

geospatial

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132167#Comment_121132167

Sorry, I assumed you meant the default #metoo movement position of "I believe all women who make accusations". I am glad to hear you judge each accusation on it's merits, which is also my position. For a crime as serious as rape with the potential sentencing involved, that decision should be made in a courtroom after an accused has the opportunity to defend themselves.

geospatial

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132282#Comment_121132282

See answer to SL above.

I also tend to believe the testimony, but would hesitate to decide on guilt. How do we know that's all the evidence, or how well the testimony would hold up under cross examination? As for those expecting him to respond publicaly, Brand would be an absolute fool to say anything other than the denial he has already given.

geospatial

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132149#Comment_121132149

Another example of "if you disgaree with me you are a rape apologist" favored by leftists.

I judge each case on it's merits. I would tend to believe most accusations of rape as it takes great courage to come forward, but that does not negate the moral hazard of false accusations which do happen for a variety of reasons. In the Brand case I would also tend to believe the accusations, in that someone as promiscious as Brand with a history of substance abuse likely had a weak relationship to the concept of consent. But, it can also be murky, especially in Hollywood where promiscious behavior, and alcohol/drug abuse is rampant. In a case for example where both parties are wasted out of their minds, and have regrets afterwards, who if anyone is guilty of rape?

But I would like to see these claims tested in court and adjudicated by a jury, they are far too serious to be adjudicated on social media, where one side rush to a guilty verdict and the other to not guilty.

What's your solution to all the sexual assaults/rapes that don't get reported or make it to court?

dickdasr1234

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130894#Comment_121130894

Allegedly.

The age of consent in the UK is 16.

Your nonsense is becoming a bore.

geospatial

For those convinced of Brand's guilt, surely the case of Benjamin Mendy should be a cautionary tale? By his own admission led a very promiscous lifestyle, "women throwing themselves at him, slept with several women a night, partner swapping, etc". Held frequent alcohol and drug fuelled sex parties at his house (illigally during Covid). Was accused by six women of rape, incluidng a 17 year old. Lost his livlihood, two years of his career and wages, lost his place on the Man City squad and the French squad, in custody for several months while denied bail. Eventually found not guilty of all charges.

Did everyone here believe his six accusers and conclude he was guilty, or give him the benefit of "presumed innocent until found guilty beyond reasonable doubt"?

2smiggy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130107#Comment_121130107

good on the escorts getting €30000 off him. lots of 'could' and 'allegedly' there too. BTW there is zero comparison between that and what brand has been accused of

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121130851#Comment_121130851

So if someone accused you of in appropriate behaviour you would be fine with your life being altered unimaginably and the accusations being made public?

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132523#Comment_121132523

That type of comment is really destructive to a conversation.

"anyone who mentions that not all rape accusations are believed or credible in an incel"

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132114#Comment_121132114

These days the number of people is largely irrelevant, especially when the accused is a celebrity.

People will do and say anything these days to try to make themselves famous, we've had people pretend to be in WTC and people pretend to be black.

Sudden Valley

Will be interesting to see what Brand will do next to try to repair his public image. At the moment we have powerful (in my opinion) testimony from a number of accusers and a few text messages and on his side just a defence that he was promiscuous. I can't see him doing an interview with piers Morgan or the BBC to defend himself, he probably saw how that went for Prince Andrew and Piers Morgan would probably give Brand a hard time.

Good luck trying to get posters here from speculating on his guilt, speculation is all what Boards is about. If this went to court they would freeze posting on this thread anyway.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132432#Comment_121132432

Given that people here defended Weinstein, Trump and Masterson, I don't think care about whether or not Brand is guilty. They just seem to object to men who assault or rape women facing justice. Saw one poster describe justice for rape victims as "metoo nonsense".

I'm familiar with the tactics at this point. No idea who Mendy is and I've been on this site long enough to know that if I ever want to find out, I'd better do my own research.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132432#Comment_121132432

“Guilty” and “not guilty” are terms used within a courtroom. Very few if any people posting on this thread are calling Brand “guilty” and if they are, they’re idiots.

Posters in the main are expressing their views on the accounts put forward by alleged victims- many have stated that those accounts, to that poster, sound credible.

Im sure there are some posters who previously liked Brand, and are now reconsidering how they feel in light of this news.

5/6 separate unconnected people making claims of a sexual assault nature against one individual is unusual to say the least.

You can be “found” not guilty in a court of law but that doesn’t mean people are all of a sudden going to like you again, give you a job or throw tons of money at you in sponsorship deals.

K-9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121132619#Comment_121132619

I suppose the difference here is Brand threatened legal action from a team of expensive lawyers when one of the women did raise concerns with his agent.

It was common advice among female comedians to not find yourself in the same room alone with Brand.

A sexual predator will exploit the fear in coming forward and double down on it. Alot of people, not just his alleged victims, were scared of the repurcussions of raising complaints. In a case like this it is his right to privacy vs. future victims right to protection from him and payback for his past deeds.

ancapailldorcha

For anyone wondering why some women do not report rape:

https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1703850614923436177?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1703850614923436177%7Ctwgr%5E4ad18b12232656be2a01e529bcc77722eb3cfafa%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoke.com%2F2023%2F09%2F19%2Fskys-sophy-ridge-on-the-russell-brand-story-is-90-seconds-very-well-spent%2F