At what point are you responsible for your own financial situation?

JizzBeans

Getting closer to winter now folks, so expecting the usual cost of living "crisis" moaning to start in a matter of weeks. Can’t heat my home, electricity bill too expensive, petrol & diesel too expensive, shopping too expensive, government must do something for people struggling etc., etc. Why is it always someone else's fault when economic turbulence crops up? Why is it always the government that needs to do something?

Then there’s the low IQ solutions put forward by same cohort, boycott utility bills, rent strikes, tax energy companies into oblivion, eviction ban etc. This stuff always seems to dominate the headlines at some point, it’s a disgrace Joe!

The reality is that the government have been very generous with supports and payments this year. Furthermore, inflation is a part & parcel of a global economy, weather you like it or not. Genuine question, at what point is a person responsible for earning more money or getting a better paying job? If you choose to work in a low paying job, then why is it a surprise inflation is harder to deal with?

FazyLucker

Its just the annual cycle of media:

August = Back to school

September = Back to college

November/December = Cost of Christmas / how to behave at Christmas parties

January = How to repay November/December

March = Drunkenness on Paddy's Day

April (once upon a time) = Pubs on Good Friday

May/June/July = how to entertain the kids for the summer, holiday horror stories.

Repeat.

Back to your general question, the same crew who got 1k out of BOI a few weeks back and blew it will be moaning about somebody else paying for everything. Basically, its the government's fault, poor old me, victim mindset. Its terrible Joe, I agree with Paul Murphy we shouldn't pay the bill.

The low / middle income earner will put on the 2nd jumper and turn the heating dial down, try to save a few bob here and there. Because its what they are used to doing, i.e. being responsible for their own financial situation. I know many people in low-medium paying jobs who are busting their b****x to pay for everything, commute long distances, etc and are completely galled by the free munny brigade.

So to answer, some people are never responsible, some have been doing it since they got their first job.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312460/at-what-point-are-you-responsible-for-your-own-financial-situation

Two points, either poor effort or I wonder at what age complexing thinking developed beyond simple black-and-white thinking.

SuperBowserWorld

...

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074315#Comment_121074315

Don't forget your house in Brussels and Roscommon and the housekeepers to go with them.......it's not easy 😂

Jim_Hodge

Yet again you start a thread complaining because somebody might get some assistance from the state. It's boring at this stage.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312460/at-what-point-are-you-responsible-for-your-own-financial-situation

There are only so many "better paying jobs" out there - everyone cannot be in a very well paying job. Indeed as we have learned the econony relies on people who are in traditionally "lower" low paid jobs however inflation hits these people hardest for obvious reasons.

People are right to have moan about the cost of living crisis, the housing crisis, the healthcare crisis and whatever other crisis we are afflicted with.

Granted - we appear to live in much better times that decades ago but it's all relative.

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312460/at-what-point-are-you-responsible-for-your-own-financial-situation

How many people are actually struggling like the media pick a few cases and run with it assuming these are even true

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074412#Comment_121074412

Oh i edited my original post..I didn't want to boast. 😁

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312460/at-what-point-are-you-responsible-for-your-own-financial-situation

I've got two words for you. 15 minute city.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312460/at-what-point-are-you-responsible-for-your-own-financial-situation

*Whether . What a ridiculous thing to say about people just getting better jobs. You thing everyone should do that do you? What would that mean then?

Jequ0n

It’s just another thing that people use to cement their eternal victim role. It’s not a new phenomenon and but is has gotten worse, and it is not even restricted to financial means.

I mean it’s not just lack of planning or stupidity, like deciding to have 3 children without means to finance them. A lot of people are so removed from reality that they they expect everyone else to be responsible for their safety and well-being. There is a rising level of entitlement that has been growing for years and I can’t decide whether it is down to stupidity or plain delusion. Expecting the government to bump up your payments at the end of the year because you couldn’t manage to plan and save (knowing full well that these costs would be coming) is as stupid/ entitled to believe that one should be able to get blackout drunk without getting assaulted. Absolute lack of personal responsibility.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074264#Comment_121074264

While I totally agree with you regarding the news cycle it takes a very bitter person who objects to an elderly person getting supporters to keep their house warm.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312460/at-what-point-are-you-responsible-for-your-own-financial-situation

at what point is a person responsible for earning more money or getting a better paying job? If you choose to work in a low paying job, then why is it a surprise inflation is harder to deal with?

you do realise that if everyone in low paying jobs was able to leave their jobs to get a different one, the economy would go into a tailspin? of course you knew that.

or are you arguing for a big increase in minimum wage?

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075477#Comment_121075477

I did the opposite. I got sick seeing the tax on my overtime etc so I just decided to retire 15 years earlier and go on the dole. Why give 45 plus hours of your life away when you can have them back and still get paid.

Life is so much better. Going on holidays in a week or so too, so getting the scratcher while sitting on a beach in a nice warm country for a few weeks.

Work as hard a you like and get yourself to a point where you have enough in your pension and your house bought and then go on the dole and enjoy having that slave time back for yourself. I make it about 50,000 hours I have slaved over the years. Thats enough for me though. No more. Then when you reach 65 draw the state pension too. Spend an hour or two a week figuring out how to play the system like hundreds of thousands of people have done since birth instead of 45 or 50 hours working and commuting only to hand a heap of it over to those who dont.

I posted what I was doing in another thread and most of the people moaning about it were either civil servants or others on the scratch. They dont like the golden goose sitting down and taking some of their gold back. Probably afraid their free share will decrease if more golden geese catch on.

FazyLucker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075457#Comment_121075457

Can you point our where I objected to that or what line in the above post helped you come to that conclusion?

brokenbad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074412#Comment_121074412

Try it sometime!

RoTelly

I think there is a point at which you should take responsibility, but I also think there is a point where you can ask for help.

I think you choose how you live.

Neighbour of mine put up a really nice extension, small utility room.

He and his wife worked on it, except for one part, they did a great job, and afforded by doing overtime and saving, because it was important to them.

Other neighbours, who are renting from council, basically getting everything for free (btw sometimes people need that help), were over and said "Oh! see this is what you can do when you are rich", he was so pissed of "He told them if you do some overtime and a bit of saving you can do it."

IMO you choose how you live, you can save, you can get ready, or you can decided to put everything on credit, spend your money on nothing and then complain you have nothing.

There are circumstances were people need help and there are some rare examples where someone will always need help, but unfortunately there are plenty more examples of pure waste.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074857#Comment_121074857

Certain people will always have an eternal victim attitude and a great sense of entitlement to go with it - and granted some context is required in all of these situations.

But there are many more who are geniunely struggling with the inflationary situation, cost of living and limited scope to earn more money.

The cheapest life decision to make is not to have kids. But that's not exactly a good thing for society - or perhaps there are those who believe it's good thing for society not to have kids.

There's only so much budgeting you can do when it comes to kids out into the future however when your costs go up dramaticilly and you have no options to pull in extra money (as many don't) then you will hear people complain about increasing costs of fuel/heating oil, mortgages, rents, food, goods and services, insurances that you cannot avoid, health insurances and insurances that you can avoid, and generally everything else.

There's two cohorts of people here - but you need to seperate them out. There are people who would sleep on the floor if there was work in the bed and would feel entitled to everything but there are far far more people who get up and work, their partner as well, with kids or without kids, and who genuinely wonder how the bills will be paid because of something that is literally completely outside of their control for a lot of things.

RobbingBandit

Dole bashing by another name still does not smell sweet, give it a rest folks you're flogging a zebra

BrianD3

If you talk to someone and observe them for a few minutes you can usually get a good idea of how responsible they are for their own financial difficulties. Small, medium and big ticket items - Muck Mansions, BMWs (even older ones) with 19 inch run flat tyres, 1000 euro smart phones, sky sports and other entertainment subscriptions. Even getting tattoos or insisting on getting a haircut every week which seems to be a trend for young men these days - it all adds up. Also, poor judgement and impulsive behaviour is a factor in the housing crisis, I know several single mothers who have dated and continue to date thugs and badboys. They never learn from their mistakes. This has a direct impact on their finances and well being and results in complicated and chaotic living arrangements. Money is a constant problem and they get stuck in various traps e.g using Prepay power for electricity which costs them more.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075914#Comment_121075914

I think you have to look at it from a wider perspective.

I don't think you can turn around and say this is "dole bashing".

People are often bad with money. I see it in my own family.

I see it in work. Plenty of people out there that are on good money that seem to think that they can throw it around and then complain about the cost of living, I am sitting there would you ever stop spending so much on shite. Take a look at your bank account and see where you can cut costs. Then see what you have saved.

Again plenty of people in need and need help navigating their lives.

Tell me how

Ah yes, another 'lets all get together and complain about social programs and point the finger at anyone who uses them' thread. We haven't had one of those in a few days.

Just something off the top to consider on a broader level, in the US, the minimum hourly wage is $7.25. If it had kept track of inflation since it was at its highest purchasing power back in the 70's, it would be $26/hour right now. In the UK, the number of people who can be classed as living in poverty has increased significantly since he crash in 08, and more so since Brexit. And the numbers of foodbanks has increased dramatically over the same period. In Ireland, and the UK and beyond, we've seen massive increases in inflation over the last two years, accompanied by recording earnings, profits and dividend payments at the corporate level. The energy price hikes of last winter were accompanied with pretty much every energy provider posting record earnings. In the UK, during Covid, literally billions of pounds were handed out without scrutiny to friends of friends and friends of families of those in charge.

And I know that this is an Irish focused platform and thread, but the same corporate interests and mindset exist in ireland as they do elsewhere and to constantly punch down to those at the bottom is both unfair, and ignoring quite often where change should happen. Irelands government went to the court to prevent Apple having to pay 13B owed in tax. That's as strong an indicator of the focus of national policy as you can get really. Ireland has a decent social support system and it is there for everyone to access should they need to. Very few people who live in Ireland for anything like a significant amount of time do so without seeing some benefit or another at some point.

Absolutely, there are some people who always look for a handout first and don't seem to want to put the effort in themselves, but they are not solely responsible for the implementation of an increasing tax burden on the middle class or wherever the OP sees themselves. There's no difference in terms of the mindset between those who falsify their situation to get a medical card or whatever, and those who do it to claim extra expenses as a TD for example, or those who do it to avoid paying tax, or those who do it to maximize their income and profit percentage. The only difference is that the focus is often in the wrong direction

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075914#Comment_121075914

Who is bashing the dole. Im on it. Its amazing.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076026#Comment_121076026

Plenty of thread focus on mismanagement of fund across the state, you could say Ah yes, another 'lets all get together and complain about the mismanagement of social programmes and point the finger and anyone administrating them" and they should be held to account.

This is a wider issue not just in relation to people on social programmes or using social programmes.

You don't seem to recognize a huge group of people who work hard for their money and save what they have and then see those either slight below, and those slightly above complaining. Yet they very if ever look for help or complain that they have nothing.

Many of the complaints come from the lower middle class, 3 this year were all from people who should be able to survive were highlight across the press, none of them on an average wage (€45k) all above that, and all complaining. Never a case for a family of 2 with both parents working bringing in €45k.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074519#Comment_121074519

I’ve got four words for you. That’s three words.

It's a dole-bashing thread, I pay an enormous amount of tax and PSRI, an enormous to me anyway it does not make me resentful of what anyone else is getting An odd time I might think that a ridiculous situation to happen, life is too busy to be bothered also if it was all sorted it wouldn't lower the taxi and PSRI I pay by one iota. in my longish life I have found those who resent others are frustrated with their own situation and are using dole bashing as an unhealthy coping mechanism or slight depression, There is a problem for every solution type personality trait.

I come from a big family and have a very large extended family a complete cross-section of society from the type that could become chief state solicitor to someone driving a digger, the majority would be nurses, trades, teachers, small businesses, farming bits of the public services, working in pharm, working in finance, engineers. The only ones getting any sort of welfare are those with long-term illnesses such as cancer or strokes.

How do posters only seem to know so many on welfare and feel confident commenting on their lives and want the benefits they're getting?

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076151#Comment_121076151

You have not read the thread at all. "Dole bashing" seriously.

No one is asking for lowering tax rates for and to move away from social benefits.

They are point to the huge number of people from across the board (those on social benefits and those not) who seem unwilling to change anything in their life to improve their situation and who constantly complain.

There does come a point where you have to improve your situation yourself.

• Getting a job
• Doing overtime
• Getting a better job
• Doing overtime
• Getting a Promotion
• Getting a second job

Looking at your costs, do you need to subscribe to X, Y and Z.

Simple things like moving phone provider from Vodafone bill pay at €60 a month for nothing to GoMo for €16 or Clear or 48. There are plenty of people don't know where they money is going.

Not all of these things are doable for all, most can move forward, but those that can't obviously need help with housing and a host of other social protection services that are available to them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076151#Comment_121076151

There's nothing wrong with dole bashing. The dole should be there for those who have invested into the system, not to remunerate those who have no intention of reciprocating the same. That's a given. And those who abuse the system -- and there are many -- should be held with the deepest of contempt.

I would go further to address the underlying cause of this long-term problem. Parents should not have children if they cannot afford them, let alone multiple children. It's irresponsible and reckless. Invariably the system rewards mothers who have more kids, with many families deliberately having more kids to earn more child allowance. I think we should adopt a reverse solution; that you get less child allowance the more kids you have. This discourages the development of large families in the most deprived neighbourhoods (families with an active history of work / contributing productively to society will be the only ones who are eligible for more allowance).

We should inculcate a sense of personal responsibility for those in question, not wheel out more cash to throw at the problem -- making it worse, and repeating the same mistakes for those kids growing up who will end up on the same kind of recklessly irresponsible and stupid path.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075899#Comment_121075899

I agree, and my post wasn’t aimed at the ones who are genuinely struggling because of unplanned circumstances or simple bad luck.

BlueSkyDreams

If you are on the dole, never.

Yes, it is a dole bashing/ telling others what to do, how to budget, and blaming others.

Its history is fascinating, the workhouses will only encourage the feckless, 'They' wouldn't have been in the workhouse if they had budgeted better.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075824#Comment_121075824

I must have misunderstood you, The elderly won't have to put on an extra jumper and console themselves with themselves the thought that they are the martyred class that pays for everything.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076315#Comment_121076315

No it is not. And you seem to have completely avoid the fact that we aren't just talking about those on the "dole" but a wide range of people, I'd even go as far as people would would be considered largely successful.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076359#Comment_121076359

As I say most of the complaints are from middle class, middle aged people who can afford things.

God forbid people consider their own circumstance, who can afford to do so.

growleaves

The dole can also be seen as a subsidy to the private sector, as companies that underpay their workers know the State will pick up the slack.

I'm thinking here especially of very low paid, possibly immigrant, hospitality and construction workers.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076315#Comment_121076315

I know some people who have worked since they finished education and who don't qualify for any welfare payments.

They earn enough to manage but are always broke because they spend a huge amount on lunches, coffees, snacks and drinks during the day. They throw food away because they decide to get a takeaway delivered instead of cooking an evening meal, that can add up to more than €30 per day, more if they smoke.

Then they constantly buy shite from Penneys etc that needs to be thrown out after a few washes. Add in a night out and you're well on the way to over €400 per week wasted, then they wonder why they struggle to pay their mortgage and utility bills.

That's poor budgeting and has absolutely nothing to do with social welfare. A lot of people spend money as soon as they get it with no forward planning.

nullzero

Getting worked up about people looking for financial assistance is understandable in a country where being a motivated hard working person equate to a decent standard of living.

Currently in Ireland that isn't the case, and while there's always going to be gougers gaming the system the majority don't want to be asking for anything.

Take the recent increase on excise duty on fuel, the government could have saved some pressure on people by electing to not let the proposed increases go ahead but they didn't, everyone is feeling the pinch.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076315#Comment_121076315

There is lots of advice here aimed at people who arent on the dole.

JizzBeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074841#Comment_121074841

*Think. And yes, I think at a certain point you are responsible for your own financial situation. Should the government take care of these people indefinitely?

What is wrong with suggesting get a better job? Lots of people do/ have done it. Don't see the issue.

JizzBeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074419#Comment_121074419

I have no problem with assistance. Plenty deserve it.

I have an issue with people who choose to work in poor paying jobs but then try and blame/pressure the government when they are pressed financially. Its exhausting listening to these people with crisis after crisis.

The annoyed about this and need to stop listening to Joe Duffy and choose very carefully what to listen to on Newstalk and maybe stop 'reading' Irish newspapers and try Today FM for a change.

As for those who complained about their mortgage while simultaneously buying takeaway and other rubbish if they are not interested in living an ordered life that includes budgeting don't listen to the moaning.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076513#Comment_121076513

Many of the people who did this were pretty happy in life and would of been fine but then the housing crisis got much worse very quickly and the housing crisis is mainly due to the government been asleep at the wheel rather than people not having forward planning

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075579#Comment_121075579

You posted last week that you were still in work in Dublin. So yeah. Enjoy work tomorrow.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121077985#Comment_121077985

Apart from the boom years a deposit was always required.

Regardless, I'm talking about people who already own homes but struggle with their mortgage and bills because they flitter through their money. Their houses were bought pre-boom and their mortgages are modest.

nachouser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312460/at-what-point-are-you-responsible-for-your-own-financial-situation

Are you still claiming to be a teacher? Kinda weird attitude to have for those who can't scoot off for 3 months of the year on their holliers.

"inflation is a part & parcel of a global economy, weather you like it or not."

I would not want you to be responsible for correcting my homework.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076113#Comment_121076113

No, it's a number and two words. I thought that much was obvious. 🤣

Feisar

One is ultimately responsible when the safety net gets taken away.

JizzBeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078071#Comment_121078071

Did you just use "Kinda" in a sentence and then spell check me? Whats your point exactly?

JizzBeans

Why do people have a problem with suggesting that lower earners improve their financial situation? This cohort are disproportionately affecting government spending & decision making with low IQ demands.

Imagine supporting something like an eviction ban, landlords didnt buy properties so they can be told what to do with it. A lot of people are invested in vulture funds, pension or private investing, but lets ban them because it doesn't suit a certain cohort.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121078492#Comment_121078492

Low IQ demands, what the actual fcuk?

Say everyone goes off and becomes solicitors, surgeons, or whatever you deem appropriate - where are you going to go for a meal out, where will you stay if you want to go away, how will supermarket shelves restock themselves etc?

Lower paid jobs are a vital part of the economy, and some of those workers will need financial supports to live. Sneer and look down your nose all you want, but your own IQ doesn't look too impressive in this thread.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075579#Comment_121075579

No you didn't

That's your weird online persona fantasy.