Why Do Men Earn More Than Women

Gerry T

As the title suggests, you can guess where this is going. I've just watched a netflix 44min documentary by Karren Brady, the title of which is the same as the thread title. While there were valid points being made, in my opinion, what did grate on me, was the lack of balance. Karrens main point was there is still a gender pay gap but then she started to touch on how senior positions were being dominated by men. I see these as two different things.

First to gender pay gap, I was under the impression in most western countries this has been done away with. I'm sure someone will be along to point to CHina and how men doing the same job earn more, there's no arguing that, so best to look at developed western democratic countries. Is this a thing today ? it was a problem only 20 years ago but I would have though that this was now sorted.

The second point wrt men getting promoted over women, I don't doubt this does happen, but is this not also a rare occurrence ? most employers I know want the best person for the job and they couldn't care if that person was male/female/black/white/blind/deaf etc... they want the best candidate or am I being naive ? I work in an engineering field, most management are men, you do see the odd woman but it's rare. But then in college there were 90 to 95% male students, I see this as the main reason in that industry that men hold senior positions. For every managers role there are 100 men that would want it, their might only be 5 women at most.

I fully support equal pay for an equal job, but I'm totally against a quota system for middle/top management in the industry I work in. I'd be interested to get people's opinions on their experiences, how does it pan out in employment sectors that are dominated by Women ?

gormdubhgorm

1) Men don't have babies - women's career path is broken up when they have a child

2) Most women prefer jobs which they can also take care of their children with time off etc - teachers/nurses

3) For the majority of women to achieve wage parity to men they would have to have no children. -

a) There are a few who do manage to hit the top level money in various fields, and have children as well.

b) But such women are one offs and workaholic's with boundless energy. Or else their children are reared by someone else.

FishOnABike

As a person with a net worth estimated at approx. STG£ 85 million would it not be more appropriate for her to ask why there are such extremes of wealth and poverty in a supposedly civilised society.

Is Karen Brady really that much better a person than the average person? It smacks of hypocrisy. A little introspection might not go amiss.

Far better for her to distract the peasants and have them squabbling over crumbs than have them asking why they don't have a fair share of the cake in the first place.

magicbastarder

i see it where i work - people who succeed are people who act more confident, even if they don't actually outperform others. and men display more what i have recently learned is called 'honest overconfidence' where they mistakenly overestimate their own knowledge/skills. but the workplace usually rewards that. if you act like you know what you're doing, people usually place more weight in your opinion.

this is a podcast episode about it from michael lewis (the chap who wrote 'the big short' amongst others)

https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/against-the-rules/episode-6-the-overconfidence-game

hayrabit

for reasons variouse it's sad to see...

main one being, it only focusses on Men v Women; narys the consideration for the othere ~70 genders, and how they might be underpaid relative to their cis counterparts

griffin100

I remember listening to a researcher in this area (I think she was from UCC) saying there is no gender pay gap, what there is is a ‘family’ pay gap.

She outlined how people who take time out of their career to have kids and raise families earn less than those who do not, irrespective of their gender.

She referenced studies that showed that women who didn’t have kids and so didn’t leave the workforce earned the same as men in similar roles who also never left the workforce; women and men who left for a time to have / raise kids did earn less than their peers.

So it’s related to time off away from your career rather than your gender as such, but obviously women having kids have to take time away from work more than (most) men do.

dickdasr1234

A woman's work is never done!

whisky_galore

In a nutshell. Babies.

Pauliedragon

I've heard of stories (how accurate I don't know) of women who are engaged being told by recruiters to take their engagement ring off before interviews especially when applyying for higher end management jobs as the employer will assume it wont be long before they will be off on maternity leave. Look at the stick Jacinda Ardern in NZ and Helen Mcantee here got for taking ML whilst in high profile jobs.

GreeBo

Why do some men earn more than other men?

Why do some women earn more than other women?

Why do some women earn more than men?

growleaves

Since anyone can start a new company and make themselves the CEO - and institutions will happily lend capital to women, indeed there are many special women-only grant funds available now - the problem of brilliant women being under-promoted should be to some extent self-solving.

Plenty of new female-owned businesses in cosmetics and fashion industries.

BrianD3

It's biology, women want to date high earning men, they don't want to date men in low paid, "family friendly" jobs. They don't respect stay at home dads or men who have lost their jobs.

So men are incentivised to become high earners, bigshots and workhorses. Women don't have the same incentive as men don't particularly care about what women earn. Result, men earn more than women.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy

tails_naf

In most countries women and men are paid the same for the same role and grade.

What makes the difference is the roles they may gravitate towards. For example Tech has been heavily male all through college, which follows through to the jobs after, and of course grade is affected by many factors, but evening out paternity leave should help there.

I work in tech, and it's very fair. Purely on performance. If anything women are paid slightly more for the same role

greencap

Theres can be good pay in certain roles which involve danger, exposure to the elements, and/or physically demanding conditions. Women tend not to take on such roles.

Some work environments can also be of a certain confrontational/masculine nature, where things are said in a more direct way, which could be intimidating to women. And some of the jobs in those environments may pay well. Like dock work/longshoreman, or construction/engineering, metal fabrication.

edit; many men also don't go for such masculine jobs, or are precluded from such jobs by not being robust enough, some roles just require a certain type of stereotypically masculine man. and there can be good money in them.

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312266/why-do-men-earn-more-than-women

Men are more likely to ask for raises I believe hardly mens fault either.

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312266/why-do-men-earn-more-than-women

More men are also more willing to dedicate their live to a career biology I suppose or whatever. Men get status from a career women not as much guys dont seem to care what title a woman has women see to care more what a man has.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070086#Comment_121070086

I think a lot of guys do care what a woman does for a job, if they are looking for a partner nowadays.

Women can earn the same as men, if not more. And the cost of living is so high that its more important than ever for a lot of prospective partners to date higher paid women.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070032#Comment_121070032

Indeed. And a lot of larger companies have a policy of activley promoting women or other minorites in the work place.

2 equal candidates, 1 male and 1 female.

The female is more likley to get the job at a company that has a positive discrimination policy.

KaneToad

The higher earners are usually those who were raised in households of high earners.

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070119#Comment_121070119

Yes but I mean more in a title a woman is more impressed if a man has the title of a ceo or coo or whatever than a man will be.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070164#Comment_121070164

I think younger folks look for successful partners. Whatever the gender.

But maybe the older generations are a bit more traditional in that sense, yes.

GreeBo

In general, if men earn more than women, its because, in general, men are in better paid roles than women.

Women in the same roles as men are paid the same as men, despite what some would like you to believe.

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121069236#Comment_121069236

I'm surprised, I thought there would have been a number of replies arguing that there is a pay gap. I think the above is very true, and can be seen with men now, where traditionally this was a woman only issue, or should I say observation. If you take a back seat for 5 or 10 yrs to focus on the kids/family, then that will affect your career. Some will get back on the merry-go-round and others won't. It seems to be more a choice thing than a gender issue.

I got a tender pre-qualification document in recently and one section was all about the companies policies on gender equality and asking what percentage of Mgt. were Men/Women, a sign of the times I think. Not that there is anything wrong with this, its just the industry I'm in has very very few women working in it, so where are all these women going to come from to fill these positions?

NIMAN

All things being equal, there should not be a gender pay gap as it would be illegal.

But all things aren't equal.

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070804#Comment_121070804

You're suggesting there is a gender pay gap, where have you seen that ?

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070815#Comment_121070815

Plenty of reports this one looks at a number of companies.

https://www.pwc.ie/media-centre/press-releases/2023/gender-pay-gap-analysis-2023.html#:~:text=71%25%20of%20companies%20disclosed%20a,gap%20in%20favour%20of%20males.

I can say in my PS/CS department the vast majority of the top jobs are held by women, there is definitely "positive discrimination" (lot of it in PS/CS) in play which I am not entirely comfortable with to say the least, a number of these appointments are extremely poor at their roles imo. Less of a gap in public Vs private from what I have seen.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070815#Comment_121070815

I haven't seen it, have just read anecdotal stories over the years.

To pay a man more than a woman for doing exactly the same job, in exactly same set of circumstances, with exact same employment history, is illegal. Often examples don't fit this rule, and probably explains why there might be a difference in pay.

Honey50000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070870#Comment_121070870

Why would they pay a man more its like they care so much about men if a man is paid more its likely he has more experience, is better or pushes for a raise more as men tend to do. Same for a woman if she is paid more this lazy argument is pushed all the time by media on the left.

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121069236#Comment_121069236

Whats frustrating is that even when these researchers explain the reason (kids & family), they still frame it as being a "problem". They've literally just explained the reason, why isn't that enough? But no, they have to frame it as a problem that must be solved using ridiculous and unfair mehtods (such as discriminating against men for promotion).

pgj2015

Most women still expect the man to pay for everything so they have too earn more, look at first dates, the women nearly always loose interest in the man if he wont offer to pay for both meals, even though he didnt ask her out and might never see her again.

BrianD3

When boys do worse than girls in the Leaving Cert, the media routinely reports this as girls "outperforming" boys - yet I don't ever recall seeing the gender earnings gap being described as men "outperforming" women in the workplace.

Just the usual "Women are wonderful, Women are oppressed" nonsense.

Also, re: the civil service, a well respected poster on this forum is adamant that the civil service has positive discrimination policies to favour female candidates at the aptitude test stage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/56142271#Comment_56142271

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/105166825#Comment_105166825