Is there any recourse in this situation, an error during construction?

Sugar_Rush

Basically a friend of friend was moving residences a few months back and asked could I help with the furniture etc.

Their old/new place had been thoroughly renovated.

So, few weeks ago we knocked into each other and they were explaining how the renovation went really well, except for one thing.

They had a stove heating system installed that apparently also heats the radiators for the rest of the house as it concurrently heats water.

The builder/designer of the renovation explained that they could heat the stove, then selectively switch on/off the radiators in the parts of the house they wanted heated.

Long story short, the plumbers or whomever did the job, made a complete mess of it and the system isn't fit for purpose.

.......

Now, they still have an oil fired furnace that switches on and can heat the radiators like a normal heating system.

But the stove doesn't heat the radiators at all. So they had an expensive stove installed with the intent it could heat the entire house, but it in fact only heats one room.

When they questioned the builders, apparently they were fobbed off with some laughable excuse like, they had the plans for the installation drawn on the wall for the workmen to follow, and someone mistakenly painted over them so the workmen got the installation wrong.

As they explained it to me, the piping from the stove in their living room to provide the hot water for the radiators throughout the house was routed under floor, but the floor is poured concrete, so there's really no way to re-do it.

I mean, what an oversight, but as we know, with builders, they like to take short cuts etc.

......

Just out of personal curiousity, is there any recourse here? (I'd hate to think I'd find myself in such a situation one day and simply have to swallow such a loss, whilst getting laughed at by the builders who made the mistake).

They said they were reluctant to pursue recourse, as they pretty much didn't want the hassle, but how much hassle could it be?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058311978/is-there-any-recourse-in-this-situation-an-error-during-construction

All depends on what kind of contract they had in place with builder / presumably main contractor, and how far they are willing to go to enforce that contract. Did they withhold any part of the last payment until they were happy that everything was OK?

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061525#Comment_121061525

Not that I'm aware of.

In fact, I believe the construction finished around late spring and they moved back in when they didn't need the heating, so all payments were complete before they even realized there was a problem.

I may be mistaken on that, but payments are fully made now I believe.

As to the nature of the contract, and how far they're willing to go to enforce it?

This I really don't know and am kind of questioning here;

What would the usual protocol be in a situation like this? b

But it seems to me like a glaring error - would one really have to go that far to get that corrected?

I don't know what corrected would even look like, presumably financial compensation?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061668#Comment_121061668

I suppose the usual protocol would involve;

1) Some part of the payment withheld for a period

2) Some kind of survey or audit on completion to ensure the builder has done his job.

In the absence of these, getting it corrected could look like;

1) Fixing the problem

2) Making a payment in compensation, probably based on the cost of getting someone else to fix the problem.

The householder could try chasing the builder, maybe try a solicitor's letter. If the cost of fixing is under €2k, they could try the Small Claims Court.

If those options don't work, it's down to trying to sue the builder, which could be difficult and drawn out.

Deregos.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061668#Comment_121061668

This must be awfully disappointing for your friends everytime they go use the heating . . and its not even winter yet.

They trusted the builder and paid him in good faith for a new, working heating system, and he's given them something not fit for purpose.

That 'bollocks' about the heating plan being painted over is actually an admission of total incompetence by the builder.

They should firstly engage the services of a good heating engineer to do a full technical report on exactly why this rad system isn't working and what needs to be addressed to fix it, with an estimate of costings for same.

Then a solicitors letter to the builder, including the heating engineers report and the threat of court action if he fails to adequately repair the heating system, up to one of the standard that they originally paid him for.

That alone should help the builder in rethinking and taking this whole situation more seriously.

They must not let him simply walk away from this mess he's created and that hes also quite clearly liable for.

Shoog

Another issue to consider is that the stove will be massively overspecked for a simple room heater and without the radiators to dump heat into it will boil the water in the backboiler.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062688#Comment_121062688

The radiators apparently get some heat, but just not nearly enough to actually heat a room.

I have no idea about the spec of the stove. I assume it's good, but the entire setup turned out to be ill fit for purpose, basically.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067775#Comment_121067775

A stove with a backboiler is taking the energy out of the room,if it's not bringing it effectively around the house it would be as well to put an ordinary stove in and burn far less fuel

DownByTheGarden

Ive been in many houses, including one of my one that had solid fuel stoves that were supposed to heat the rads via back boiler. Never came across one that actually did produce anything more than luke warm heat for the rads.

If I was buying a house now and someone said the stove has a back boiler and heats the house, I would say pull the other one.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067775#Comment_121067775

If stove is actually plumbed into same line as all radiators (ie. they are all connected) then issue is more likely underspec stove or under spec pump?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067965#Comment_121067965

Internal thermostats on most modern boiler stoves are a big limiter on output heat, they constrict air flow into stove after a certain point and makes it much harder to get water up to temp quickly compared to an open fire back boiler, despite all the heat loss in latter case.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067983#Comment_121067983

They said the stove is high end.

They said the guy that did the plumbing in the boiler house or however that works, made some excuse about painting over the plans..... which he had drawn on the wall.

So, perhaps the pump?

But the regular burner for the oil heats the radiators perfectly according to them.