Ex Leader of The Proud Boys off to the slammer.

Rows Grower

For 15 years, and one of his buddies, an organiser, got 17 years.

Nice to see justice being served.

Won't be long now until the big orange fella will be joining them behind bars.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/ex-proud-boys-leader-sentenced-to-15-years-in-prison-over-us-capitol-attack-1521550.html

IlovemybrickFC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058311752/ex-leader-of-the-proud-boys-off-to-the-slammer

Good thing too - I’m all for protesting government but that was bloody stupid and I’ve no doubt more people would have been killed but for brave law enforcement.

Montage of Feck

I think we'd be in a better place if all communications with the USA was shut down maybe the Russians will cut the transatlantic cables?

Pawwed Rig

What did he do? Article is fairly vague. He sprayed an "irritant" at law enforcement! That could be lemon juice to mustard gas.

He told some lies.

Anything else?

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054759#Comment_121054759

Seditious conspiracy.

johndoe99

he's probably hoping Trump will be President again and pardon him.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054759#Comment_121054759

It's in the first sentence of the article.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054759#Comment_121054759

He was convicted for being one of the ring leaders.

Personally I think he should have got 30 years for his defence of we were basically just site seeing.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054783#Comment_121054783

Trump formed part of his defence.

The Judge actually used Trumps actions as a mitigating factor in sentencing.

Which is very interesting.

IlovemybrickFC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054799#Comment_121054799

I didn’t read it - that was seriously the defence?? Madness!!!

Was that not the same reason the Russians gave when they poisoned people in Salisbury??

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054759#Comment_121054759

You must be extremely selective in your reading if that is all you got! The fact that he was the leader of the Proud Boys, encouraged an insurrection, advocated rape and the sexual assault of minors on line.... you missed all that. Stop trying to trivialize this kind of behaviour because when you do you license others to do the same.

briany

The Proud Boys are one sad bunch of bástards, you have to say. They walk about trying to be an insecure 12 year old's idea of a man.

Tombo2001

The thing I am kind of surprised by is his about turn in the courtroom; tearful, never meant for this to happen, got caught up in the emotions - as if he was just there to do some sight seeing and got caught up in this unintentionally....

Still though, the ultimate ringleader here was Trump and he'll never be prosecuted for it. Meanwhile, this goon spends 15 years in jail.

The other interesting thing is this notion that the presidents own security were involved, that Mike Pence refused to co=operate with his own security personnel on the day, as he was fearful they were on the other side.

Donald Trump

Boooooooooooooo

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054933#Comment_121054933

Only sorry he got convicted, nothing more. If you took away the legal jeopardy of what he did, he'd be dining out on stories from that day, or at least trying to do so.

ancapailldorcha

Good riddance. Fascist filth belongs behind bars.

Hodors Appletart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054759#Comment_121054759

good man yourself

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055010#Comment_121055010

Absolutely agree.

There have been quite a few convictions and jail sentences imposed so far and lots more to come.

That'll soften their cough for um and anyone else thinking of doing something similar in future.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/30/january-6-arrest-sentencing-00099158

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055051#Comment_121055051

A good number of the insurrectionists will retain their beliefs while in prison. They may even intensify as thoughts stew around in their minds while sitting in their cells. We know this from examples such as Donald Trump himself 'recording' a single with convicted supporters as they sing an eerie rendition of the US national anthem down the phone. The so-called "Q Shaman" has certainly not renounced his worldview and right after leaving prison has been given interviews in full garb, though the head dress he now wears is a replica, with the original still confiscated.

But that isn't to make an argument against jailing them. It's just to say that it's not going to knock the crazy out of them. Far more important to make society in general move on from the susceptibility to all their nonsense rather than doing anything with these individuals.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055051#Comment_121055051

I'm inclined to agree with Briany. These people did what they did because of their cultish devotion to Trump, a man who sacrifice all of them for a dollar. They may soften a little bit but they're not going to repent. In prison, they're likely to associate with each other, reinforcing their Q-based worldviews. Being imprisoned will breed in them a sense of victimhood and that the elite was determined to get rid of them.

Sadly, with America's polarised and toxic political culture, they're here to stay. It's possible that some of them will cop on a bit after a spell in the nick but America's prison system is set up for private profit, not rehabilitation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055121#Comment_121055121

Sadly, with America's polarised and toxic political culture, they're here to stay.

Just to put this in wider context, hate and anti-government groups in the US have, on the whole, actually decreased in recent years:

The number of white nationalist, neo-Nazi and anti-government extremist groups across the U.S. fell for a third straight year in 2021, even as some groups were reinvigorated by the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol last year and by the ongoing culture wars over the pandemic and school curriculums.

In its annual report, released Wednesday, the Southern Poverty Law Center said it identified 733 active hate groups in 2021, down from the 838 counted in 2020 and the 940 counted in 2019. Hate groups had risen to a historic high of 1,021 in 2018, said the law center, which tracks racism, xenophobia and far right militias.

The number of anti-government groups fell to 488 in 2021, down from 566 in 2020 and 576 in 2019. Such groups peaked at 1,360 in 2012, the year former President Barack Obama was elected to a second term.

So whilst there is a far-right problem in the United States, the problem was worse in numerical terms a decade ago.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055121#Comment_121055121

I wouldn't expect anyone that was dumb enough to get involved in those riots to come out of any prison rehabilitated. The fact they are going to a prison that is run as a place for punishment rather than rehabilitation is a good thing in my own opinion.

Gatling

It's only going to get worse Ive noticed a slew of ex military and gun youtubers suddenly finding God and wanting to bring America back to strict conservative governments while hinting at running in elections, these guys have access to Bigger and more extreme audiences than most politicians, God , traditional families and 2A ,but they want to take rights from everyone else that doesn't fit their views

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055314#Comment_121055314

The concept that prison should be for punishment as opposed for rehabilitation has always baffled me. Punishment doesn't solve anything. I think these people should absolutely be held accountable for their actions but merely punishing them solves nothing. They need to be deradicalised and that means specialist psychiatric help which they won't be getting in the US' dysfunctional and perverse prison system.

I don't want to go into this too much as it's a topic worth its own thread.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055325#Comment_121055325

All you can really say is that they're welcome to their views. They aren't welcome to enact criminal conspiracies, however.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055147#Comment_121055147

But historically wasn't egged on by a president so it's substantially different and pretty volatile. You yourself have argued Trump should be pardoned cause his supporters will get violent. When the Nazis and white supremacists view certain politicians as on their side that's a pretty horrifying as a state of affairs. You've even got the likes of MTG who pushes QAnon conspiracies. That's a very different political landscape to ten or twenty years ago.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055343#Comment_121055343

I don't think you can get around the problem of the person having to want to be helped. This is probably a total misconception, but I picture the deradicalisation process as something akin to Goodwill Hunting where it's a lot of informal chats with a chummy oversharing professor about every subject under the sun, until the subject eventually realises that there is so much more to life than hate and fear.

Whatever the actual process, if it doesn't seem to the subject like it's their own idea to turn their back on their old views, then it's impossible to know if it's only lip service being paid to the process.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054784#Comment_121054784

A lot of people were there. What specifically did this guy do?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054799#Comment_121054799

Fair enough. Seems like a long sentence though. I doubt he would have seen any prison time if that happened over here.

Is it something specific he did to warrant 15 years or just over all involvement/ring leader?

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055539#Comment_121055539

It's in the first sentence of the article I linked.

If you think I'm going to spell it out for you then you are trolling the wrong person.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054839#Comment_121054839

No mention at all in that article of rape and sexual assault of minors??🙄

What am I trivialising?😁 I never heard of the guy and asked what he did to deserve the sentence. How is that trivialising anything? It is hardly the best written article of all time

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055561#Comment_121055561

If you don't want to discuss it then why start the thread?

The first line of the article is "A former leader of the far-right Proud Boys extremist group has been sentenced to 15 years in prison for spearheading an attack on the US Capitol to try to prevent the peaceful transfer of power from Donald Trump to Joe Biden after the 2020 presidential election."

That could mean anything from running from the front lopping off heads with an axe to having a vague association with the organisation of the event. We are talking about the US here remember where justice is not really a thing.

Very touchy group here.

Down with him he should have gotten the chair!!! Is that better? 🙄

Rjd2

initially i did think it was harsh, but this dude decided to throw his life away for Donald **** trump so lol.

Also very important that with 2024 near and the most likely outcome Biden pipping trump then these guys need to know if they have try anything like this again the consequences will be very severe.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055539#Comment_121055539

Fair enough. Seems like a long sentence though. I doubt he would have seen any prison time if that happened over here.

If he was a ring leader in an attack on the Government?

Are you serious? They wouldn't even be afforded a trial by jury here.

They would also be more likely prescribed a terrorist organisation.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055592#Comment_121055592

https://news.sky.com/story/raise-the-black-flag-how-four-proud-boys-secretly-planned-to-overthrow-american-democracy-12940299

hope that explains it a but more.

a lot of people rocked up to protest on the day and while i consider those people idiots , the vast majority of them went home and caused no harm and thankfully have not had any legal issues to deal with since.

these dudes though are different, they did storm the capital and this was a serious coup attempt, so yeah the sentence seems fair enough.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055592#Comment_121055592

Treason, sedition, denying the State's authority all tend to carry relatively long sentences in most countries. It does seem surprising in the modern age, which I guess is why it's usually quite rare that people get prosecuted for it.

In Austria recently there was a bunch of nutjobs/ fantasists sentenced to 10-14 years recently for denying the State's authority/existence.

I think in Ireland it isn't taken as seriously because not acknowledging the State's legitimacy has tended to be a central tenet of most political parties at some point in their existence. IRA membership will still get you 5 - 8 years

purplepanda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055790#Comment_121055790

In Spain the non jury trial of Catalan independence political leaders, was even presided over a Prosecution Officer from the far right fascist Vox party. Resulting in even longer sentences than the United States Congress trials.

In effect the USA Qnon insurrectionists, who don't have any democratic mandate nor political representation, got much lighter sentences than the democratic non violent political pro independence representatives & politicians of the nation of Catalonia.

The Offences against the State Act is still on the Irish statute book so I would guess any similar actions carried out by far right or / & far left extremists would result in long sentences like those given out by the Spanish courts.

TedBundysDriver

Meanwhile Antifa carry out far worse crimes and get lauded by some. Funny that.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055969#Comment_121055969

did they try and overturn a government

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055876#Comment_121055876

they did storm the capital and this was a serious coup attempt

Seriously, how would this coup, if successful, have manifested itself? It's something I've never been able to make sense of. If you capture the Capitol for long enough, do you get the power of the nation handed to you or something?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055969#Comment_121055969

They don't.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056042#Comment_121056042

https://news.yahoo.com/rioters-set-fire-federal-courthouse-162333860.html?guccounter=1

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-us-news-racial-injustice-d640afdd85404f0b7ffde44eb75f9512

Of course not, they are angels

Billy Mays

BuT aNtEeFa... 😂

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054799#Comment_121054799

Hey it worked for Ibrahim Halawa, the Irish passport didn't do him any harm.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055996#Comment_121055996

Just because a coup attempt was an atrociously thought out idea doesn't change the intent. They also put the lives of senior members of government at risk.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056466#Comment_121056466

Of course it does, if the coup was impossible given the supposed attempted approached, then it's very hard to argue that it was a serious attempt at a coup.

Economics101

When it comes to Antifa riots or dispurbances, Portland was a complete outlier: you can't generalise from it.

I don't know why Portland attracts such a concentration of crazies.

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056537#Comment_121056537

It was a half-assed coup attempt but what more would you expect? They probably thought if they control the building, they control the country, which is worrying in a different way. It was a fairly serious attempt to murder politicians, however.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056537#Comment_121056537

If a person attempts a murder but their idea is really stupid, they still get prosecuted for attempted murder... In this case it was still an intent to attempt to change the outcome of an election by threatening elected representatives and taking over a federal building. Anyone considered to be leaders of it would face the harsher sentences.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056553#Comment_121056553

And whataboutery... I'm guessing you'd have to check the courts but not exactly comparable to an insurrection on a federal building.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056897#Comment_121056897

I think it would have been more of a case of using it as a call to arms ,we have the capital rise up now and remove your local governments , this is exactly what militias have been hoping to happen for years, imagine the Easter rising if our population has heavily armed with modern weapons and equipment

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056897#Comment_121056897

exactly, again if it was the idiots who just rocked up to protest and then went home and did not do the storming that were going to jail, i'd be fuming no matter what i think of their politics, but as laid out these were most certainly not peaceful protesters, their plan was to stop joe biden becoming president and they were happy to go to extreme ends to do so.

The fact they failed miserably shouldn't matter whatsoever.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056897#Comment_121056897

Or maybe, just maybe, they weren't actually trying to overthrow the government, and it was essentially just a protest that went way too far.