Is the Church of Ireland a Religious Organisation or a Business Organisation Now.

faolteam

Seems to me personally it is a Business, Run by a person with a White Collar at the Top.

I thought during Covid that Clergy were under pressure with there Parishoners and the Whole Covid experince, quite busy to ring or check how there parishoners were but it also Seems to me a Few were Doing rather Well with Nixers in other places rather than there own Parish, Not all of them.

Roll on a few years and only this week My Father has been Diagnosed with a Terminal Disease, ie maybe now less than a Week at home Getting worse, and isnt amazing that a Week later No Response , Just when a phone call was made and eventually getting through,

Oh yes we got your correspondence we will be in touch,

Still waiting for that phone call,

Maybe i am Right it is a Business after All.

Furze99

Do you pay your parish dues?

faolteam

After 30 years i would think we are,

torrevieja

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121024921#Comment_121024921

Well there is the First Clue its a Business faolteam ,

Sorry to Hear About your Father

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121024952#Comment_121024952

Maybe the rector has been away on holidays?

torrevieja

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121024977#Comment_121024977

Surely there is Curate or Somebody there to Deal with that a Week, Seriously.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121024991#Comment_121024991

Should be but most parishes whether CofI or RC, aren't exactly overstaffed these times. Hope it works out OK, difficult times ahead.

homer911

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121024921#Comment_121024921

No such thing in the CoI

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121024991#Comment_121024991

Did anyone from your family become a priest? No. None from mine, or most other families, either.

Parishes in most churches are now vastly understaffed and simply won't offer the same responsiveness as before.

Yes it sucks that you're discovering this when someone is passing. But the whole country is going to be finding similar in the next 5 years as clergy retire.

And yes, I am sorry about your father. Hope the week goes as well as it can, given the circumstances.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121025105#Comment_121025105

Have they been abolished? When I was a churchwarden, one of our duties was to collect and count these. Maybe it's Revolut now.

Jellybaby_1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121026300#Comment_121026300

The CoI don't collect 'dues' from parishioners homes like the RC, and if you were a CW in a CoI church, you definitely should not have been doing that. Were you referring to the Sunday collection? That is not called 'dues', it's is just called an 'offering'.

Regarding the situation you are in, I can say in my own parish although money is usually high on the agenda due to the fact that the congregation is a lot smaller than before so income is down and we still have to pay for our utilities just like everyone else, our Rector, will not ever ignore the call of a family when someone is seriously ill. I know this for a fact. Not all Rectors are the same.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027030#Comment_121027030

Well it's a few years ago but the dues were put in an envelope and gathered as part of the collection. We opened and counted them afterwards in the vestry. I guess parishes vary.

torrevieja

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121025685#Comment_121025685

The OP stated its church of ireland, there clerical people are clergy not priests , A person is dying here and the op was told that one they had recieved there emails and messages, and that the Rector would ring that day, I personally think its a disgrace this that no follow up happened,

Wouldnt a Simple phone call have been a help or reassurance, I think the Op should ring Joe , or better still have a Prime Time Investigation in to the way Parishoners are been Treated in there Hour of Need, and yes i do have a family member who is a Clergyman.

Viscount Aggro

Its very much a business.

I joined a local COI church in Wicklow recently. Next week I had a visit to set up a direct debit. I see the local rector living in a luxury house, has a nice car, and all the toys.

faolteam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027829#Comment_121027829

They all have luxury houses and nice cars, Yes torrevija a Simple phone call back is that a lot to ask, Maybe though they are too busy to Dial a number but Joe Might get a Ring,

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027819#Comment_121027819

The Church of Ireland very much has priests: some reading for you here:

https://www.ireland.anglican.org/our-faith/church-teaching/protestant-and-catholic#:~:text=The%20Church%20of%20Ireland%20has%20retained%20the%20structure%20of%20the,all%20for%20which%20they%20stand

and here:

https://www.ireland.anglican.org/news/8799/faqs-ordained-local-ministry

They may call ministerial people by the generic term "clergy"(and the CC does the same fyi), and "rector" rather than "parish priest" - but some of them are ordained priests. A rector, by definition, is the priest in charge of a parish.

Some more reading here: https://www.leeds.anglican.org/how-we-can-help/vocations/faqs/ (CoI and CoE have similar disciplines, though the former is an autonomous member of the Anglican communion.)

And they are facing similar staffing /age-profile challenges.

torrevieja

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121028022#Comment_121028022

The Church of Ireland have some Clergy who like to have a High Church actually try to copy the Catholic Church now, the old fashioned Service is not Good enough for these Clergy.

One of the main things about been A Rector is that you have faith in your religion, so you can teach your religion to your parishoners LISTEN to there Querys, help Them and Spread the Gospel not the Cheque Book.

Baptize , Marry and IF you can find one Bury you Would have thought the last was probably the most important of the lot,

I think its a Disgrace that the Church of Ireland, Carry on this way,

No wonder nobody wants to go to Church anymore or people want to become clergy its a Business.

Does it mention in that Reading the reason why we Dont have Clergy,

homer911

There are many reasons why people don't go to church any more, in every denomination. The lack of a visit from the minister/priest is not usually one of them. I don't think you are being fair blaming a whole denomination for one situation with no contact. CoI ministers, like all priests have ever greater responsibilities and often cover multiple churches over big areas. We only have the OPs view here. We don't know if this person is known to the minister, or if known, how regular a participant in church life he was. We also don't know the minister's personal situation and other priorities on his time - I know of more than one suffering with long Covid.

Certainly a return of a phone call would be expected so in the absence of that, has the OP followed up with a further phone call or visit to the rectory, or even a visit to the church?

homer911

As regards "Dues", the word implies some sort of obligation to pay/contribute. There is no such thing in Protestant churches but there is usually some sort of expectation that anyone who wants to consider themselves a member of the church should have a financial as well as a spiritual interest in the running of the church/parish, no matter how small that is.

faolteam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121029203#Comment_121029203

I wasnt Blaming a whole demoniation but its certainly going that way,

Jellybaby_1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121027264#Comment_121027264

This is the first time I have ever come across 'Churchwardens' actually opening envelopes and recording the contents. That should be the Treasurer's job! I'd like to know if you are a member of a High Church? They may use RC traditions and I am not familiar with those. Would you clarify please as it would help all here to understand your comments better?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034268#Comment_121034268

High church - didn't think there was any of that here. No it was a bog standard CofI parish. A few years ago, I see now it's done by direct debit. Better for all I guess.

Anyway there's nothing wrong at all with the principle of dues or subscriptions. Parishes need money to run and a regular supply of it, not just what comes in during the offering/ collection.

martinedwards

you should have had contact back.

definitely.

but.....

Are you members of the Parish?

do you actually attend? (paying in financially makes NO difference)

I Suppose that its possible that the parish may be vacant. In that case the Rural Dean should pick up any pastoral support needs, but it may be that the message didn't get passed on.

was it an email or a message on a website, or did you actually speak to an actual human being?

As to the big house and car and all....... There are rules as to the accommodation provided by the parish. The salary isn't massive. And as to the car.... you want them to walk everywhere? They get a mileage allowance, but the car is out of their own pocket.

Hope your Dad is doing well.

faolteam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034268#Comment_121034268

Im Pretty sure too that Churchwardens may have opened the envelopes in my Fathers time, There are a few churches in the group and certainly one of them is the rectors Baby (pride and joy) and it is very much a RC tradition only short of imcense, No Dad Had a Bad night 24-72 hours at Most.

Jellybaby_1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121041792#Comment_121041792

I'm so sorry about your dad. Have you tried to contact the Rural Dean yet? Perhaps opening the envelopes was an old tradition, and maybe still in High Church, but I didn't think it happened today with privacy laws. Hope you get the answer you need.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121034268#Comment_121034268

İt's the done thing in my church too, everything is counted, note taken, and then put away to be collected by the treasurer.

Back to the original post; As said previously, contact the rural dean, it may well be that the rector is away/the position vacant. I hope your father feels better.

Jellybaby_1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121044184#Comment_121044184

Ah ok, I obviously stand corrected. Many thanks.

z80CPU

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058310779/is-the-church-of-ireland-a-religious-organisation-or-a-business-organisation-now

Delete sorry