Import VRT reduction?

ZookeeperDub

Ok was talking to a few guys and this is about the 3rd person who has mentioned to me in 2024 the VRT will reduce so it will allow dealers to import from the UK without the massive VRT we have seen in the last few years. Done a bit of a google but can't see anything. Is this pub talk or something that might happen?

User1998

Absolute pub talk. Same as every other year

Theres a 20% VAT refund in the UK next month. That’s about it for now.

And I’d imagine VRT will be increasing slightly in this years budget. As it does every other year

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971016#Comment_120971016

Was thinking so, the discussion was saying that imports would come down and increase flow of cars in Ireland again

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971023#Comment_120971023

Well I suppose theres some truth in it. There should be an increase of UK imports soon.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971034#Comment_120971034

Really? the VRT is crazy on them at the moment

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971049#Comment_120971049

Your mixing up VRT and import duties

VRT depends on the Co2 output of the car. Most UK imports these days would be low Co2 so low VRT.

Import duties are high because of Brexit, but like I said theres a 20% reduction coming.

VRT is staying the same, or maybe increasing slightly usually

mickdw

Basically, we were stuck with only vat qualifying cars to import since brexit which significantly reduced stock that irish dealers could buy.

New rules now allow any uk car to obtain a rebate roughly similar to vat amount (1/6 of invoice) even when not vat qualifying. That will free up every uk car to now be imported here so should make a massive difference to Import numbers and also price levels.

This rebate is only available to car dealers however but still should create a far better market here.

bazz26

It will suit car dealers here in offering more choice and maybe more margin but I wouldn't hold my breath in any savings making their way to the end buyer.

Type of cars being imported won't go back to the post Brexit days either and VRT is now designed to price half interesting cars out of being imported. Those days are gone now.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971220#Comment_120971220

Prices will certainly drop. Too many import dealers will be willing to cut each others neck for it not to happen. We have always seen imports with only a fair margin in the past.

Its true that only certain types make sense now. Its hybrid, EV or nothing.

I looked at a diesel A7 the other day. 17k vrt

Similar priced 530e in UK about 5k vrt.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971220#Comment_120971220

Would agree with this. The private motorist was always ripe for exploitation here and it's likely this VAT exemption will largely be soaked up by dealers with the Govt continuing to screw people for VRT, Nox levies, etc.

Importing cars privately was really the only way to make a decent saving pre Brexit and private motorists are still barred from this option

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971275#Comment_120971275

There are a lot of diesels that still make sense to import. Bluemotion Golfs for example have less than 100g of Co2 and only €300 or so of Nox, so the VRT on them is very cheap. There are a good few more with similar amounts.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971061#Comment_120971061

Sorry you are correct. It was talked to about me a reduction in VRT so I wasn't the only one.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971220#Comment_120971220

Problem at moment seems to be lack of choice, dealer know this and pushing up prices. Yet when you ask about trade in the list of excuses come flooding in

Now sure how the UK market is these days but for a while they had cars been sold for more than bought 3-4 years earlier. I wonder is it any better?

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971368#Comment_120971368

I guess large 7 seaters like XC90/Q7/X5 would be outside this bracket?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971655#Comment_120971655

The PHEV versions are selling here all day long and are actively being imported.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971655#Comment_120971655

Yes, bigger heavier cars are just being imported as PHEV’s or are being converted to commercial vehicles which also have cheap VRT

skydish79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971868#Comment_120971868

Are these been converted "temporarily" or permanently?

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120973442#Comment_120973442

Permanently. You have to pay the additional VRT if you convert it back.

Some people will convert them back and not declare it but you’d be in trouble if you got stopped at a Revenue checkpoint

Anyway most of the SUV’s allow you to keep 5 seats as a commercial so theres not much need to convert them back

Markus Antonius

Government shot themselves in the foot cutting off the private imports. Would love to know how much less VRT they are pulling in now. Surely making up for it other ways though.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120984216#Comment_120984216

The UK imports VRT was bringing in a lot less than selling cars in Ireland and creating our own market. Especially when you consider a lot of crap cars got dumped into Ireland from the UK. Cost more longer term as we are left to scrap them

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120984527#Comment_120984527

The Nox levy pretty much ended the import of **** diesels as only relatively new and clean diesels made financial sense, except of course for commercials which were always treated far preferentially. Course that makes perfect sense from an environmental perspective🤔

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120984527#Comment_120984527

Do you have the statistics to show that UK imports get scrapped sooner than Irish cars? Sounds like crap to me

mickdw

To be fair, there were an awful lot of cat C and D coming in with only the bare surface repair works being done before being put on the road here so alot of those would end up as scrap fairly quickly.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988711#Comment_120988711

Ah I know some UK imports have been written off, but the same can be said of Irish cars that get written off and repaired too.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120985053#Comment_120985053

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988801#Comment_120988801

It was well known, hardly a secret that UK was dumping cars into Ireland and it was also known that loads of them got a few thousands miles lost off them in the Irish sea

I personally ended up with 2, one which I never figured out till I was selling. The second I had bought and had all paperwork, only I contacted Audi UK and it had 100k more miles on it when they last serviced it. I was lucky and got to return that one.

@User1998 as I posted to you before the Long Mile Road in Dublin had thousands of clocked cars.

Don't get me wrong, I bought a lot of imports due to spec etc but I was fully aware a lot of the ones I test drove had been clocked.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/car-clocking-second-hand-mileage-11229899

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989064#Comment_120989064

The problem I have is that nothing your saying is backed up by facts or statistics. The real truth is that the majority of cars being imported from the UK are decent cars being imported by decent people. Even the article you linked agrees with me. Its LESS than 2/10 which are bad at 18%.

The rubbish your spouting is propaganda spread by SIMI to the ordinary Irish consumer so that they would stop importing cars from the UK and buy from Irish dealers instead. SIMI like to ignore the fact that thousands of Irish cars get crashed, repaired and clocked as well.

And to say that there are thousands of clocked cars on the Longmile Road is absolute rubbish. Its pub talk from people that haven’t a clue about the motor trade. I know some of the business owners personally and they are genuine people selling genuine cars.

Obviously some dealers are less than genuine and pop up and leave within a couple of years, but to paint everyone on the Longmile Road as a cowboy is just factually incorrect. If it were true there would be something done about it legally.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989438#Comment_120989438

From the article

The worrying figure is twice as bad for cars imported into Ireland from the UK, where almost one in five have an unreliable mileage reading.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989764#Comment_120989764

Yes, like I said, less than 2/10, 18% to be precise. So thank you for proving my point further. The vast majority of cars imported from the UK are decent. According to your article, 18% are clocked, leaving 82% as not clocked. I would call that the vast majority. And lets not forget that according to your article, 1/10 Irish cars are also clocked. So UK imports are only 8% worse off?

Obviously written off cars are an issue too, but like I said, plenty of Irish cars are written off and repaired too, but SIMI doesn’t push that agenda on regular consumers like yourself

Henry Ford III

Cartell suggests otherwise....

"Latest research shows that around a third of vehicles being sold have some kind of hidden history issue that may not be disclosed during the sales process. It’s always wise to arm yourself with as much knowledge as possible in advance of purchase."

It also suggests 40% of cars written off are put back on the road.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989860#Comment_120989860

I’m not sure how that states otherwise? If anything it proves my point further. Plenty of Irish cars being crashed & repaired that the media doesn’t really talk about.

The poster seems to think that the majority of UK cars are clocked and that the Longmile Road is full of clocked cars.

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989893#Comment_120989893

It certainly doesn't prove your point.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989912#Comment_120989912

What point does it prove then?

User1998

Anyway a UK import could be here in Ireland for 5+ years before it gets clocked, but because it happens to be from the UK it simply gets added to the figures🤷🏻‍♂️

People seem to think that the Irish car market is innocent, and that UK cars are bad.

galwaytt

I spoke to someone in the tradet his week and he said there as a meeting on the subject on Monday last (SIMI I assume).

The proposal is for dealers to be able to reclaim UK VAT, but obviously to charge Irish VAT in lieu. Mechanism to be worked out, but hte proposal is that traders can do 4 claims a year to recoup. (each claim can have multiple cars on it).

Only issue I see there is cashflow: you as a trader would have to be able to afford to pay both VAT's until Revenue credit you, so the numbers would not be small.

bazz26

Indeed. You have to remember that there was a lot of scaremongering from sources who had a vested interest or agenda, those in the Irish motor trade who saw second hand UK imports as fierce competition to their setup. At least with UK cars you could find a detailed history on them. Try finding similar histories with Irish cars, most don't have a documented service history beyond the end of the original PCP or warranty. Dealers here are not bothered either if they have one or not when taking them as trade-ins (I've never been asked if it had a service history when trading in). The mileage on the NCT is not fool proof either where the mileage displayed on the odometer is entered on the cert so it could be altered prior to it's first test.

Then you have previous crash history, where is that available on Irish cars to a buyer? I don't think insurance companies share that information assuming it's even recorded, with car history report companies. There is way less transparency a People also talk about the UK dumping their clocked or previously written off cars on us. Well I'd say it's chancers over here who were at fault for bringing them in. They imported them in droves because they bought them in auctions at knockdown prices but sold them to those over here at full price.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990228#Comment_120990228

Which is why importing cars directly from UK pre Brexit represented a significant saving over buying same car imported through an Irish dealer. Obviously a premium is justifiable to cover dealer overheads but the saving could easily be €5 or €6k which incorprated a very significant dealer profit.

No wonder so many UK car were imported by Irish dealers, they were a cash cow that has dried up since 2021. Am sure many dealers are welcoming the opportunity to recommence this lucrative add on to their business

Technique

Be wary of surveys published by companies with a vested interest in a particular outcome of the survey.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120985053#Comment_120985053

Not sure that is what the post meant?

More that we as a country are stuck with the environmental impact of disposing of them at the end of their lives, which the UK is escaping by virtue of them not ending their lives there.

Of course the same also applies when we export older cars to other countries, lots go to Cyprus, Africa etc.

murphthesmurf

I lived in the UK most of my life, moved here ~12yrs ago, so have experience of both markets. A friend of mine was in the car accident repair business too. In my experience UK cars are better looked after. If I have a choice between buying an Irish or UK car I'd buy the UK one everytime.

People advertise cars here with 150k+ miles as "low mileage", probably haven't seen the inside of a service centre for years. You'd struggle to sell a car like that in the UK. My last car was an 2014 A4 with 140k miles on the clock. When I told my mates back in UK what I'd bought the first thing they all said was "why did you buy a car with that many miles on? Isn't it just scrap?".

My son is buying a car right now from an Irish dealer which is a UK import. I got the UK reg and was able to do a full background check. Previous MOT's going back several years including any failures/advisories. Write off status, finance, pricing etc.

Also the fact that a car has been a write off is not always as bad as it sounds. Insurance companies sometimes write off cars for very little. Often see cars on UK Auto trader accident repaired, Cat C or D etc. They'll have photos of the damage the car had with a record of the repairs done professionally. For the right price I would have no problem buying one.

bazz26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990481#Comment_120990481

Cars going through UK auctions that were declared Cat S or N write offs but repaired and back on the road generally fetch up to 30% less than non written off cars. These cars are good once repaired correctly but worth a good bit less they were being scooped up by pop up traders over here to be sold at full price and no disclosure of previous write off history. Same with high mileage stuff, sold at auctions even cheaper and then gets a hair cut after they land here.

You then add the insurance write off but unrepaired stuff bought from places like Copart that get bought as they are and are then cheaply repaired and sold on over here.

Despite the general consensuses out there. These cars don't all get offloaded over here by the Brits, they were regularly bought and sold on over here by home grown chancers.

User1998

Agreed, The UK are not ‘dumping’ their unwanted dirty diesels and clocked and crashed cars here. Its Irish people that are buying them up with high mileage and accident damage and clocking and repairing them here.

The same way Irish people buy accident damaged Irish cars for repair, or high mileage Irish cars to be clocked

With any car you have to do your due diligence and carry out as many checks as possible

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990892#Comment_120990892

Yes the UK did. The value of diesels in the UK fell drastically after VWgate. The UK always had a 50/50 ratio with petrol/diesel and Ireland was 70%+. It was easier for the UK dealers to offload diesels into Ireland at a higher price than they could in UK. People wanted petrol/hybrid/electric, like the Irish market now.

Hence why trucks of diesel flooded Ireland in the last few years before the change

Plenty of articles and information around this. If you want to discuss if those cars are clocked have a look at the reports in the UK on how many cars are clocked in the UK. Believe it or not.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120992006#Comment_120992006

UK dealer’s don’t ‘offload’ cars to Ireland. Most trade cars in the UK get sent to auction houses like BCA and Manheim and are bought by the highest bidder. There are bidders from all over the UK and other parts of the world involved. It was the Irish dealers who were bidding on them and getting them delivered here by the truck load.

Nobody forced us to buy them. Our VRT scheme and our government policies promoted the use of diesels here up until very recently.

Joe Soap buying 1 diesel car from a UK dealer every couple of years is not really contributing much to the numbers.

And the article you mention are propaganda funded by SIMI, who don’t want you buying UK cars. They want you buying UK cars from Irish dealers.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988801#Comment_120988801

Obviously if you do your homework, you wont get caught. That said the amount of stuff being offered here that is clocked or wrote off is nuts.

The good thing is that the mot history is so easy to check for uk cars now that is easy to avoid clocking on the irish sea as they call it.

Just last week a nephew was all on for buying an ex uk A4. Advertised with 140k miles. Quick mot check found it had 170k miles 4 years ago before leaving uk.

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120992083#Comment_120992083

"The good thing is that the mot history is so easy to check for uk cars now that is easy to avoid clocking on the irish sea as they call it."

Which is the exact opposite when trying to source a pre-Brexit car from NI. Very annoying.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120992054#Comment_120992054

My experience at the start would of said that, but I was changing car regular and I had two dealers. They never went near a trade car. They had a number of garages available to them in the UK and had picks of what cars would be brought it, they had first choice as well. Same as now with main dealers aligning themselves with smaller garages to take the cars they dont want to sell.

Why? well they could get a better price off the Irish dealers than other UK dealers.

Same as all the people heading over solo to UK to buy a car, bring it home, drive it for a few months and sell it on for a profit on donedeal.

Of course you had some dealers in the auction houses, they are the ones I referenced earlier in regards to Long Mile Road 😂

The SIMI dealers you mention sold plenty of cars from UK. The likes of Windsor etc had no issue selling UK cars

We are way off topic anyway. Let just agree some clocked cars came into Ireland :-)

Henry Ford III

The term "swimmer" is well known in the motor trade.

A car isn't of sufficient quality for the UK domestic market - so send it to Ireland. It's thought that 33.3% of all cars have a hidden past, and Id wager that figure is higher for UK imports.

That's not to say there aren't many good vehicles coming in, but as always you need to be thorough in your due diligence.

bazz26

I wonder how would most identify an Irish used car that was a "swimmer" over a UK one. A history check of the UK one may well identify it as flood damaged. Would Irish cars be flagged the same here? Insurance industry here in general is not very transparent so I'd doubt that information would be made available in the public domain.

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994575#Comment_120994575

A "swimmer" would be more any vehicle exported across the Irish sea than a flood damaged one.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994408#Comment_120994408

I think the point being made is that the reason these sub std cars 'swim' across to Ireland is nothing to do with the UK motor industry but everything to do with the unscrupulous Irish dealers prepared to flog these cars to an unsuspecting clientelle for a quick buck, a clientelle who foolishly trust the bona fide of the dealer to sell a quality product commensurate with the price charged

User1998

UK can’t and never did force us to buy cars, or ‘dump’ their cars here.

Irish dealers/residents saw the savings that could be made by buying abroad and capitalised on it.