South-West Commuter Confusing New Signage

TravelCounty

Saw these sorts of signs appearing in South-West stations recently. This is one in Adamstown (credit to ShortHopZone on Twitter).

As the tweet says, it's very confusing.

• The SW mark is only marked on stations from Sallins and Naas to Park West and Cherry Orchard. Is there a potential rebrand in the South Western commuter services? I thought the service that runs from Portlaoise to Heuston was the SW commuter, which serves all stations. Shouldn't they all be marked with SW. It makes it seem as if there are no commuter services from Newbridge onwards. I understand that these stations are served with more InterCity services than the stations after Sallins & Naas but mainly they are used as commuter stations.
• Monasterevin (and Charelville and Templemore) is marked as neither which is even more confusing because InterCity services do stop there (and again, Monasterevin is regularly served by the SW commuter).
• If the SW is to mark the Dublin Short Hop Zone then Heuston should also get the mark. But SW does not make it immediately clear that it is some sort of special zone. If that's what's trying to be indicated, I feel a Leap symbol would be more suitable. This would also be premature because of the plans for a new Dublin Commuter Zone to Kildare Town.
• If the SW is to indicate DART+ South West (which I think is what it's trying to do - notice Heuston is omitted since DART+ SW will not serve Heuston), it would be very premature because an extension to Sallins and Naas is neither concrete nor coming anytime soon.
• The signs are marked 'X towards Cork' yet Cork services do not stop at any stations until Portlaoise (though to be fair, it has to be marked as heading towards somewhere).
• While I get that the map is supposed to be simple, using other InterCity services is not immediately clear.
• The directions under each station are heading in different directions. The sign is for Cork yet under the stations from Newbridge to Park West & Cherry Orchard, they say 'to Grand Canal Dock' - the opposite direction. The other stations point towards stations heading away from Dublin.
• The sign also doesn't make it clear that travelling to Cork before Portlaoise requires a connection at Portlaoise, it just sort of looks like one direct service.
• (Very nitpicky point) There are keys for lines that aren't even on the map (N, S, W, E, SE)

To be honest, most people would look information up in advance, but still it's just funny that these signs make - interesting choices - to say the least. My main point is that it does not make it clear at all that a regular commuter service is operating from Portlaoise (or from Newbridge to GCD). These types of signs have been on DART for some time and they seem to be fairly accurate and helpful, not sure what they were thinking for this - though maybe I'm reading to much into it.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058308895/south-west-commuter-confusing-new-signage

notice Heuston is omitted since DART+ SW will not serve Heuston

Just to point out, while most services will indeed use Heuston West, there will also be platforms converted for use by DART trains in Heuston proper (platforms 6-8, and I believe platform 5, will be electrified) that will likely be used mainly during the peak hours and maybe infrequently during the off-peak.

icdg

Stations all over the country are getting similar signs - it’s the most coherent the Irish Rail network has looked in years - not too long ago it was possible to take a journey and see different types of signage at different stations (1980s uni bar signage. 1994 original plastic Arrow/IE logo signage. Orange and white signage. Signs with CIE 2000 font. You could find all sorts of stuff!). Part of the TFI brand roll out I think.

One thing I’ve notice is on the Maynooth line, all stations have now got DART logos on their exterior signs. Quite premature at this stage.

thomasj

Here's the Maynooth line one . Sorry about the quality, sunlight in the way!

I had assume the N SW W SE was just the intercity lines directions.

LXFlyer

Deleted.

thomasj

Here's a better one . It's for Broombridge

TravelCounty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967239#Comment_120967239

The Maynooth Line signs seem to be much better. It's very concise in conveying the necessary info. I can't speak if this happened for other lines, but the SW line seemed to have gone a different direction with how they implemented certain symbols and messaging.

Don't get me wrong, it's nice that some uniformity among TFI/Irish Rail is happening. Makes things easy to navigate if you're out of the loop.

I attempted to replicate it for the SW line with some other changes

• Like the Maynooth line, it's towards the last commuter station (Portlaoise)
• The Short Hop Zone is highlighted (it's a source of confusion still to this day with people tagging on heading towards stations they can't tag off in)
• Luas and DART are marked, as well as frequent Bus services (like C1/2/3/4, 145, etc. - not Local Link or feeder services) - I don't think Carlow's town bus service goes near enough to mark a bus service on it unfortunately!
• It's extended to include the Phoenix Park Tunnel spur
• More intercity routes are displayed
• Carlow and Athy are marked on the map
• Removed the individual station "to X" labels.

ArmaniJeanss

Maynooth one is decent, but I think Docklands station is a problem on it, At a glance it looks like that station is a connection for lots of other lines, but obviously we know (coz we know, but tourists won't) that that list of connections are actually for Tara St.

Could be easily solved by continuing the thick blue line a further 20 centimetres to the left and placing Docklands there, so that's it's very clearly a terminus station without any connections. There's no pressure on space on these signs, so use it.

TranslatorPS

Monasterevin (and Charelville and Templemore) is marked as neither which is even more confusing because InterCity services do stop there (and again, Monasterevin is regularly served by the SW commuter).

I would say this is more to do with the sensibility of transferring between commuter and intercity services (although, I'll be honest, half of those stations between Dublin and Portlaoise shouldn't be marked under that criteria anyway). All three stations have relatively limited services compared to what actually passes through there, Charleville and Monasterevin more so than others. Heck, if it wasn't for the shoddy Sunday Portlaoise service, I'd argue IC trains shouldn't stop there at all.

While I get that the map is supposed to be simple, using other InterCity services is not immediately clear.

This. I may be spoiled by Japan, but if I didn't know the layout of the Irish network so well, I'd be left thinking that there's just the one line all the way to Cork, remarks about potential transfers be damned.

The Maynooth implementations are far better, and at least it's now all graphically united, even if I'm rather disappointed in IÉ doing their own graphics thing compared to the recent standards we've been getting from the NTA on the bus and tram networks.

TravelCounty

At a glance it looks like that station is a connection for lots of other lines, but obviously we know (coz we know, but tourists won't) that that list of connections are actually for Tara St.

Think I fell for that trap myself, placing the Phoenix Park Tunnel spur on the map making it look a bit too easy to get from Grand Canal Dock to the likes of Cork (which of course would require at least 2 connections in Newbridge/Hazelhatch and then again in Portlaoise). But like you said, I'm sure there are easy ways to solve that

I would say this is more to do with the sensibility of transferring between commuter and intercity services

After seeing the Maynooth Line signs, I agree with you on that one. On the Maynooth Line, the IC is marked as 'Main Intercity Station'. When I tried to make a mockup, that's why I decided to only mark Portlaoise, Portarlington and Kildare - after each of these stations are diversions to other directions. Newbridge (at a big push S&N + Hazelhatch) could possibly be also marked as IC stations but it's not absolutely crucial you transfer at these stations. Any IC train that stops here will 9 times out of 10 (forgive my crude anecdotal stats) stop further down the Kildare Line again. But definitely Adamstown to PW&CO should not be IC.

The Maynooth implementations are far better, and at least it's now all graphically united

For sure, a big push for graphical parity recently. Although, for anyone who's ever been on the train going past Kishoge, you'll notice it's a bit frozen in time with the older orange/white/black boards 😂

pad199207

I see Kishogue is on the new signage now too

TravelCounty

Yep, definitely encouraging.

Is Kishoge still planned to open in December?

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969699#Comment_120969699

From my reading of the map, I thought the thick blue line is the route the train is taking to the end point on that map with the thick white line being the route the train would've already taken to reach that station .

So on the Broombridge station one pearse-drumcondra is white line which would make sense but docklands line had me confused by it being a blue line .

TravelCounty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975673#Comment_120975673

Is this sort of more what was expected? I only fully get now what the problem is. The full blue line makes it look like Docklands is a bit of an onwards journey still that can be continued from the current platform (when in reality it involves going back towards Dublin on the opposite platform).

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975899#Comment_120975899

My visual problem with that (and the original map) is that it looks like Docklands is a connecting station for SE, SW, W etc. Because those symbols have been placed unnecessarily close to the word Docklands. The purple 'SE' is literally beside the Docklands station dot.

For me, it would be better if the track-line on the map was extended so that Docklands was placed about two spots to the left, roughly on a plumb-line down from the Pearse dot. I think this would make it clearer that it is a terminus with no connections.

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975899#Comment_120975899

That's exactly it! it looks a bit like you're on a train heading to Docklands. (unless i'm reading it wrong)

And docklands could be separated a bit more to not get people confused with Tara Street)

ArmaniJeanss

Out of interest have we a picture of the map on the opposite platform at Broombridge?

thomasj

i dont, but ill look at getting one the next few days