Redundancy

busterjones

I'm about to lose my job.

Role and entire team are being offshored to India at a much lower cost.

My job is therefore not being made redundant, but replaced. Have I any leverage in terms of severance negotiations?

Thanks!

pat_sconce

Ireland is at full employment. Why not see this as an opportunity to move and improve instead of finding an angle to be disgruntled.

busterjones

Thanks for the comment but I am in no way disgruntled. I see this as a good opportunity.

I have worked very hard in this role for 16 years, and am looking to best understand the position I am in as I leave it.

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937799#Comment_120937799

So the op company have decided to move his role to India and they lose their job after giving them 16 years service and you expect them to say thanks for the job? It seems they are getting made redundant and be entitled to some of payment. Doesn’t appear they’re offering them a new role. Are you in a union?

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058307974/redundancy

What role are you being offered instead? I only ask because you say your are being “replaced”.

Either you have a job offer with the company or they have to pay to make you redundant.

The cost of redundancies should be factored into the moving to india.

busterjones

Thanks. No union and no offer of alternative job.

When it comes to redundancy can I negotiate? Have I anything to argue or can they just offer what they want, as long as its at least statutory?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937870#Comment_120937870

In my experience you can absolutely negotiate but beyond a few token changes you probably wont be able to change much. Unfortunately the person/s being made redundant have no leverage. I was made redundant after 14 years this year.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937870#Comment_120937870

You can definitely negotiate, but the company will likely want to avoid setting a precedent for other employees.

I would recommend looking at some negotiation tactics videos on Youtube.

Is there anything non-financial they could offer you? Any IT equipment, tools etc that would be a benefit?

Could you say that you would remotely train the new Indian team in return for a temporary contract for a few months plus extra severance?

pat_sconce

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937856#Comment_120937856

yes I do suggest they say thanks for the past 16 years employment and of course the statutory redundancy and hope that they offer more. But there's no entitlement to more.

With 16 years service that's almost 8 months tax free payment and being most likely able to start a new job with better money the Monday after the current job finishes.

I would say Thank-you very much.

And before you ask, I was in a position like that in 1993 when a US company decided to pull out of Europe. The redundancy payment allowed me put a deposit on a house and because I started a new job the week after the previous one finished, there was no issue in getting a mortgage.

You can be a glass half empty person or a glass half full person.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058307974/redundancy

They are not actually replacing you, they have decided to pay another company to provide the service you were providing and as you pointed out they are doing it to save money, so giving you anything beyond the statutory minimum is a waste of money as far as they are concerned, it is not as if they are ever going to need you again. Remember that it is very likely that your management, the people who might be expected to fight for you in normal times, will be going as well, or shortly afterwards once the hand over is complete, so they are not going to be very interested either.

Of course you can try to negotiate and perhaps you will be able to get a few bits beyond the minimum, but I would not let the exercise consume you.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937965#Comment_120937965

The OP didn't ask what he should think about the redundancy, he/she asked for suggestions on how to leverage/negotiate a better settlement. You are going on about being thankful for being let go when it has no relevance whatsoever.

Beefcake82

Has your company offered a redundancy package or just statutory payment ?

How many along side you will lose their jobs ?

Have you had any representation since announcement, if would be worth getting some even if it costs, as a group it should reduce your costs.

Edit: i believe the Minister of Enterprise has to be informed of job loses, so also write to his department, all of you who are losing jobs. Plus if you want to put pressure on the company, write to various newspapers, tv stations to outline the fact that more jobs loses that have not been announced publically.

0ph0rce0

Been made redundant twice. No union but each time a team of workers, one from each department were nominated by colleagues to negotiate.

They said 2 weeks, the team came back we said no, they said 3 we said no, then they stood firm at 4. We started asking for other extras like paying our health insurance for the year as it was January, they said no, so we said no to the 4 weeks.

We ended up getting 7 weeks in the end so there's definitely room for negotiation. This company were misers over the years so we were quite shocked.

Just make sure to pick the right people and not the yes men or women. You know that man or woman that's a real smart fucker to management and doesn't take any ****, the ones that don't progress because management see them as a liability and everyone thinks they are a gobshte, well they aren't. They are the ones you want in there negotiating . Every workplace has them.

Trampas

Any company that offers the minimum because shipping the role out to cheaper labour says it all about them.

How long do they want you to hang around for? I’ve seen it where they ask for people to hang around for 18 months. They negotiated a bigger lump at the end to stay that far as they were asking people to put their careers on hold for them even though they didn’t need them. Some stayed some didn’t but everyone got same package bar the lump who stayed around

CrazyEric

The most important question at the moment is, are the company maintaining a presence in Ireland? If they are moving lock stock and barrel to India then you , unfortunately, have a weak negotiating position. If they are keeping part of the business in Ireland then they may be more inclined to give an extra week or 2 per year of service. Until you have an offer from them there is no way of knowing your position.

At the moment you are entitled to statutory ( based on 16 years service)

16 x 2 weeks plus a bonus week = 35 weeks. If you earn over €600/week it will be capped at €600 so €21000.

I hope you get a good deal.

busterjones

Thank you all. That's all very helpful. News has only just broken so waiting for meetings to hear whats on offer and just trying to prepare.

Excuse my ignorance, but when you say you got 4 weeks or 7 weeks, is that Number of Weeks x years service? What rate is typically applied there, the statutory 600? Thanks!

CrazyEric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938880#Comment_120938880

Yes, weeks means weeks x years service so 4 or 7 weeks per year of service

I was made redundant last year. I got 4 weeks. 2 statutory capped @€600 per week and 2 uncapped. It is only capped at €600 per week if you earned over that.

busterjones

We're the 2 uncapped weeks also @600?

lawrencesummers

Is there many in the company?

Do you have any leverage? Do they need ye to work for the next while, does the risk of a work stoppage cost them if the end isnt cooperative?

Can the workers nominate a group of the right people to seek immediate meetings from management and demand redundancy terms?

It sounds like you and your work colleauges need to work fast to be organized and get something meaningfull from the company.

Maybe seeking advice would help, talk to a trade union member who knows their stuff and can advise, dont necessarily go nuclear solicitors yet, but be prepared to.

and time to get the CV ready as well….

Mosorchat

I think this will be your opportunity to try and show your best.

Mortan

If you have skills that are in demand, you will be more likely to be able to find another job quickly. This will also give you more leverage in negotiations.