Hollywood labour disputes

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Film forum off topic/random chat thread.

pixelburp

It's official: the Writer's Guild is on strike, so any active film productions are gonna stop AFAIK. Wonder who that's gonna effect, and how it'll effect release schedules.

Thinking of films like the Dune or Joker Sequel, which IIRC are still shooting?

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545282#Comment_120545282

Dune wrapped filming in December and Joker a few weeks ago, so neither should be impacted.

Solidarity with the writers. By all accounts the studios, streamers etc… have made life ever more difficult for regular and staff writers trying to earn a stable living, so hopefully the strike leads to most or all of their demands being met.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545348#Comment_120545348

Oh I support the Strike 'cos god knows collective bargaining is becoming far too rare in these days of contracting and "gig economy" nonsense... just curious how it'll shake up Hollywood.

And let's not forget, the last time we had a Writer's Strike, one of the end-results was Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. So is unionisation truly worth that price? 🤡

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I remember the last writers strike too, it ran from November to February, which is right in the middle of a traditional TV season. I'd say most shows are finished filming by now, or at least have final scripts done. Obviously that doesn't apply to streaming though. Will be interesting to see how long it lasts and what gets effected by it.

silverharp

The motivation for the strike is also AI related, already people can easily ask AI to generate a Seinfeld script or whatever, all the human does is outline the plot, it will do the rest and the human just polishes it up after. when it takes off you could get rid of 80% of writers. I'd imagine with artwork and everything Anime could go that way and get the same output now for 20% of the staff

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1653307174456631298

johnny_ultimate

The whole AI stuff is one particular area where I hope the writers unconditionally triumph. Aside from the fact that executives are clearly just eyeing AI as a way to reduce labour costs for the benefit of shareholders and execs alone, why in the name of god would anyone even remotely interested in film want to watch a film with an AI-generated script outside of temporary, morbid curiosity? At best, you'll get bland, inhuman formula regurgitation, at worst incoherent gibberish. In an era where writers are already restricted in terms of being able to express themselves based on the whims of algorithms, adding another algorithm to the mix would be catastrophic for the quality of the art form and a further shift towards mindless 'content' in an age where we're already drifting precariously towards that direction.

AI script-writing shouldn't be let anywhere near the filmmaking process.

Tony EH

This AI malarkey is a very scary area. Aside from writing, convincing imagery (at first blush anyway) can be rendered too. I've seen some images that can be really quite fooling to the eye.

I can see a lot of people out of a job in about ten years time as the tech becomes more and more sophisticated.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120551488#Comment_120551488

I'd not be so hasty predicting job losses. Once it catches up, legislation will quickly codify exactly where and what AI can do; for one, current AI can't create anything new only assemble from pre-existing data - that in of itself may yet kill ChatGPT when data and privacy issues are clarified. Unions will have their say too; it's a Wait and See for sure but I don't think it'll be as transformative as predicted.

I don't doubt it'll find use mind you, especially with scammers trying to fake more legitimacy, or tinpot countries wanting to fake controversies for their political rivals.

silverharp

A text to screen AI clip floating around at the moment, its not perfect but 3 to 5 years and you could ask AI to rework the Star Wars films into something watchable lol. At the moment AI cant really do humor or at least cant tell good jokes but I doubt anyone could tell if it did the script of some generic CW /Amazon show or similar.

It could still be good for the consumers, if costs drop then there is more content and more stuff gets made and quicker, Attack on Titan Im looking at you! , One commentator Scott Adams I think is convinced AI will be banned because it is too disruptive but I cant imagine that governments care about how movies are made so cant see that happening til several years down the road.

Interesting few years ahead

https://twitter.com/phi_ci/status/1653609644705689601

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Since the last strike streaming has become a much bigger player in things. I'm sure the majority of English language films/TV are still from the US, but more and more shows from other places are getting big audiences, English language or otherwise. It'll be interesting to see how long streamers can hold out without any US made content.

Just looking at Netflix's global chart for the past week, and it's 50/50 US made and rest of world. I suppose that's still quite a high % for one market.

CastorTroy

Then there's all the "unscripted" stuff as well which they'll pad things out with.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552436#Comment_120552436

Only this week, and perhaps anticipating the strike, Netflix announced it was investing 2.5 billion(!) over the nest 4 years into Korean productions. They have very definitely been putting more money in "foreign" language items over the last few years - probably because the thinking is that in the US anyway, subscriptions have stagnated and even begun to shrink. They can't grow any more within the US, not such they can match their ludicrous spend.

FunLover18

https://twitter.com/adamconover/status/1653272585252257793?t=mPVc3QzZCVISGnSTJPLpAg&s=19

This is a really good thread on the strike. The below tweet is particularly horrifying for the future of culture.

https://twitter.com/adamconover/status/1653272590310600705?t=voZ_cIeazvWAXgMnRSv1_g&s=19

pixelburp

On a related note regarding AI, one half of the Russo's weighs in with what sounds like a terrible idea, one that just flies in the face of cinema. Every time one of these two open their mouths I despair at the clout the Avengers gave them.

https://twitter.com/FilmUpdates/status/1650598147318489090

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556306#Comment_120556306

I watched the first episode of Citadel on Amazon, a show they produced and it is awful and feels like it could have been written by an AI.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557190#Comment_120557190

As did The Grey Man. I recently saw their vaunted Community episodes from fadó, and it's funny how ... choppy and manic their editing was even then; crazily "cinematic" for a sitcom, but still very sloppy. High-points of a great show, but they're terrible filmmakers. Praise is earned for Infinity War having any coherence given its scope, but one wonders how many more blank cheques they'll get. Their non-MCU stuff has underwhelmed, been critically panned while costing an absolute fortune each time (Cherry notwithstanding).

silverharp

I get the impression Hollywood in general hired and promoted people above their ability or experience, either as a choice or there was a bubble with all the streaming platforms and experienced talent was scarce

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Speaking of Ortega, the writers on the picket lines have been taking the piss out of her a bit this week after her comments about rewriting multiple scenes in Wednesday.

I would have zero faith in anything Burton does these days, but if they're shooting without writers I'd have even less. Although, as above, I think there's a loophole that would allow Ortega to re-write all her scenes, so we'll see.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

As far as I know an actor and director are allowed to "rewrite" a scene as they come to shoot it. Presumably that is on the basis of neither of them being members of the DGA, and it probably falls more under the umbrella of what an actor and director would normally do when prepping a scene anyway, rather than actually writing. I think Daniel Craig did it a lot on whatever Bond film was shooting at the time of the last strike.

It's interesting to see though how many people are willing to go to work on something that has no writers on set. Maybe the finished script is perfect and absolutely nothing will go wrong during filming that results in something needing to change.

You'd think Burton would be a member of the WGA though?

Edit - actually, looking at his credits, he's only listed as having story credits on a couple of projects. I always thought he wrote everything, but apparently not.

silverharp

AI rendition of a LOTR trailer in the style of Wes Anderson, I'd watch it

https://youtu.be/KrjL_TSOFrI

johnny_ultimate

It's everything wrong with AI-generated content in one video. Soulless, artless reproductions of other people's aesthetic ideas.

Tony EH

...and scary.

pixelburp

I can't deny it make me smile a little; but even computers can't recreate the level of whimsy Anderson channels, lol. I have already grown very tired of that that "tilt the head" movement those AI faces do. Course you watch one video on YouTube and suddenly my homepage is flooded with them. The algorithms were already here lol

silverharp

This is basically like an 80's Atari Pole Position relative to whats out today. what will they be able to to in 5 or 10 years? It amused me that they picked Wes Anderson, if there is anybody who makes films in an "Uncanny Valley" style its him.

Mr Crispy

Fans of CGI shark movies, rejoice. Renny Harlin is returning to the genre over twenty years after Deep Blue Sea. Gene Simmons co-owns the production company involved.

https://variety.com/2023/film/global/gene-simmons-production-company-renny-harlin-sharks-1235612689/

Agent Coulson

SAG-AFTRA the actors union could call for a strike this weekend.

The Union is made of over 160k actors.

The industry would be rightly fcuked if the actors join the writers.

pixelburp

Is it any wonder there's a Strike: despite only released on May 12, apparently the Disney+ film Crater has already been deleted from the service. Now, I bet few here even heard of the thing and by all accounts reviews were very "meh" having slipped under the radar, but that's scarcely the point. A lot of professionals both in front of and behind the camera have now been jipped out of residuals and earnings because of Disney's ability to drop these things into the Memory Hole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWIeQmRNZEY

pixelburp

Looks like the Writer's Strike might be about to be joined by the Actors' own union. I wonder if the infront-of-camera talent goes on strike, it might concentrate the minds of streamers and studios a little faster?

https://deadline.com/2023/07/actors-strike-contract-talks-fail-sag-aftra-to-launch-pickets-1235436031/

johnny_ultimate

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/bob-iger-writers-actors-strike-disney-ceo-1235669169/

I dunno Bob, maybe it’s the fact you’re earning $25-50 million per year while working actors and writers struggle to make a consistent living that’s part of the problem?

Agent Coulson

Actors strike now confirmed.

https://deadline.com/2023/07/actors-strike-sag-aftra-hollywood-studios-1235436118/

pixelburp

Woosh. Interesting times ahead, not that productions could do much without writers but maybe now the actors are involved it'll hasten a solution.

Agent Coulson

The strike has already effected Ireland.

Disapointment for those at The Galway  Film Fleadh

https://deadline.com/2023/07/strike-sag-actors-matthew-modine-galway-film-fleadh-ireland-festivals-1235437263/

Penn

Jesus, the studios wanted to be able to bring in background extras for a day, scan them, and be able to use their likenesses in perpetuity...

Don't care if the strikes last 10 f*cking years so long as the writers/actors win.

johnny_ultimate

Hope the actors and writers take the studios for all they’re worth and get a stellar deal. A long overdue rebalancing of power in studio production is much needed.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Just reading a couple of different reports there and it seems the British equivalent of SAGAFTRA are "standing in solidarity" with their US pals. So when it comes to making shows for streamers it might not be as simple as Netflix (or whoever) just turning to other countries.

The cast of Oppenheimer walked out of the London premiere apparently, as the strike was confirmed. Quite a few of them aren't American. They may still be SAGAFTRA members though. I'm not sure how that works.

And I've seen some criticism for actors who kept filming on House of Dragons or whatever its called, even though its filmed in the UK under Equity rules.

So... all in all quite a messy few days ahead while people figure out exactly what it all means.

odyssey06

Even the ******* dragons will be on strike at this rate.

Ah I hope the guilds triumph here.

Although a break in new content may allow us to catch up on backlog of material.

brevity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848283#Comment_120848283

Agreed

They are well within their rights to challenge the threat of AI

CastorTroy

What about promoting films they've already made? I think they can still do that.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848704#Comment_120848704

I have no idea. I think promotional obligations are part of studio contracts, so I guess they don't have to fulfil them if they're on strike?

As mentioned The Oppenheimer cast walked out of the premiere in London and Nolan had to do the Q&A or whatever on his own afterwards.

johnny_ultimate

All promotional work is off for SAG-AFTRA members. Simple as that. No red carpets. No festival appearances. No publicly tours. No Q&As or talks or masterclasses.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848256#Comment_120848256

I hadn't read that; that's nuts and yeah no shít they're striking. Now if somehow the FX industry can get a strong union together? It's not just about money that all these FX studios are spread globally; harder to coalesce some collective bargaining tactic that way.

Another reminder why corporations are not our friends, and unions will fight far harder for us than any CEO ever will. Both are imperfect, but only one gives a shít about the worker.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848730#Comment_120848730

I do think the actors striking will force hands far quicker than writers. God knows writers are seen as the lesser species along the hierarchy of talent in Hollywood - but actors walking out is basically the top tier say No Thanks.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849046#Comment_120849046

Saw people suggesting online that the only reason the studios extended talks with SAG was to try get promotion of some of the films out of the way before they inevitably went on strike.

I agree SAG going on strike will force the studios hands quicker, as it means no promotion of movies. And there are plenty of film festivals and award shows coming up, which is definitely going to sting the studios.

The worry of course is that the studios reach a deal with SAG, and considering the Directors guild also did a deal with the studios, that would leave the writers on their own. I think SAG need to show full solidarity with the WGA, and even if a deal is agreed with one, the strike stands until both guilds reach a fair deal.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

^ the idea they extended negotiations to ensure promo was done does make sense when you consider Barbie and Oppenheimer are sort of the last of the big blockbusters to open this summer. The squeezed Mission Impossible in there too. There's nothing major left to be released bar maybe Gran Turismo.

They've also had the entire chat show circuit taken away in the US because of the writers strike, so they were already missing a huge portion of their domestic promotion.

It's the festivals that will be the biggest issue for the studios. The Oscar campaigns start with Venice/Toronto, they've probably already spent millions on campaign strategies. They're not going to want to miss out on them.

CastorTroy

Speaking of the promotional stuff, I didn't pay attention at the time, but what happened with The Flash? I usually see videos pop up on youtube suggestions like they have with Mission Impossible and others, yet I don't remember seeing anything for The Flash.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120850083#Comment_120850083

There was a premiere that all the stars were at, but the usual thing of sitting down for 5 minute interviews with everyone didn't happen because of Ezra Miller. They couldn't risk putting Miller in front of cameras for interviews, nor could you just do it with the rest of the cast because they could still get questions about it and Miller is too integral to the film to do it without them.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Even without the Miller stuff, the fact they'd already basically announced they're rebooting that entire universe makes it very hard to promote it as anything people should care about. Do any of these people still have jobs going forward? I think the Miller problem probably saved a lot of awkwardness for everyone.

Mr Crispy

War never changes, motherfucker - Ron Perlman, probably

https://twitter.com/hearinladotcom/status/1679944957984133120?s=20

dublinman1990

As so much information is coming out about the progression in the development of AI in the Science and Technology industry at the moment; I really cannot blame the writers and the actors for going ahead with this strike for the sake of preserving their jobs. The studios must not be seen to lose the room among the public over this major issue as we the public are going to continue to talk about it over the next few years. If the studios really do not understand how big this threat of AI is going to be for them and everyone else in the near future. They have truly lost the crucial argument in how they will be making valuable progress on any sort of a major deal with the unions in how they are going to avoid this phenomenon from this point in time.

Progress in Science & Technology can sometimes be seen as a tool for preserving the common good. But too much progress can have the opposite effect if it goes unnoticed if it doesn't have an opportunity to go through some crucial checks to see if everything is working as intended. However the amount of progress in AI just shows how dangerous it can become for the good of the planet. AI is the biggest indicator in how dangerous it can be for the world around us if we don't look at the consequences of it's actions. I would be very relieved if the whole thing was just shut down in an instant.

The way I see it right now with this strike in the Hollywood industry is that a rebellion is going to have to be sought among the unions until this issue is resolved for good. There must no compromises sought under any circumstances until the parties have a realistic solution to this strike to keep everyone on both sides happy & satisfied. And if the studios don't offer that level of commitment to them; there would hell to pay for everyone involved.

silverharp

I dont get her complaint, In the piece she says she might get 3 guest stars in a year that pay 5-8k each, by definition its a side gig, isnt it up to her to leverage those jobs into other things?

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1681036198179897344

~Rebel~

A big part of the issue is the residuals drying up - the system was built on the idea that if you were a part of something that continues to make money, that you keep getting your share of that money. So you get your fee for this years jobs, but also your cut of your previous jobs whenever they air. Streaming has effectively done away with that and broken the model, making it unsustainable. Only 13% of SAG actors earn more than the 26k income required to get health insurance.