Irish-only titles for public bodies?

spuddy

Given Ireland has two official languages, why are we naming new public bodies in Irish only?

https://www.cnam.ie/

Dual-naming would be a fairer approach, Irish first, English second, like the example below. Give people the choice as to which to use, rather than forcing the use of one over the other.

The legislation is recent enough.

"Names and logos of newly established statutory bodies

9D. (1) The name of a statutory body established, on and from the commencement of section 4 of the Official Languages (Amendment) Act 2021, shall be in the Irish language."

El Weirdo

Bus Éireann

Iarnród Éireann

Radió Teilifis Éireann

Bord Gáis

An Bord Pleanála

I'm sure there are more.

YellowLead

Who cares as long as it’s only a name? Just like somebody whose name is Ciarán or Sorcha should be allowed have that name without also providing an English version 🤷🏻‍♀️

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120904385#Comment_120904385

Bus Éireann is actually called Bus Éireann - Irish Bus.

Ditto Iarnród Eireann - Irish Rail and Bus Atha Cliath - Dublin Bus; which nobody ever calls by its Irish name.

breezy1985

Better question is why are we not being inclusive like the good people at Watterweys Airlann.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120904973#Comment_120904973

I used to work for a company that Dublin Bus used as a supplier. I remember we had them in the system under their Irish name but that was the only thing it was used for

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905001#Comment_120905001

I worked in CIE for a bit (for my sins) and it was used in some internal stuff; but barely. Irish Rail was also referred to as Irish Rail / IR for everything as far as I remember, but Bus Eireann / BE for that division.

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120904973#Comment_120904973

Similarly...nobody calls Bus Éireann, Irish Bus. Would think Iarnród Éireann and Irish Rail are split, Irish Water are now rebranding as Uisce Éireann.

dxhound2005

I hope they all planned ahead and bagged the best website names. Irish Water had to settle for Water.ie, because a quick thinking person had already claimed IrishWater.ie.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905015#Comment_120905015

Oddly enough, Irish Rail has two legally required divisions and could do with being able to split the name. There's a track division (Infrastructure) and a trains division (Railway Undertaking); the former could be Iarnród Éireann and the latter Irish Rail pretty easily.

As a semi-state Plc they are not covered by legislation requiring names to be in Irish anyway. Only a few of the semi-states have Irish names - CIE, Bord na Mona - and I don't think any even use the translation for Plc (CPT) any more. Aer Rianta did.

Victor

I don't mind single language names, in whatever language. Indeed, I prefer them to one entity having multiple names - there are some schools with as many as 6 versions of their name. A name needs to be understandable, distinct from other names and pronounceable.

"Bus Atha Cliath" is etymologically incorrect. If I'm correct, it should be Bus Bhaile Átha Cliath. There is no place called "Átha Cliath".

Irish Rail avoid using Irish Rail and especially IR, as people were defacing it to IRA.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905054#Comment_120905054

Irish Rail use it (externally) for stuff that people need to be able to type - irishrail.ie and @irishrail on Xshitter.

LambshankRedemption

Bus Eireann is self explanatory, but the one that annoys me is Tusla. I dont know what it means. If I was looking for their services I wouldnt be able to find them. Im sure there are other examples.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905082#Comment_120905082

Its a shite name that doesn't even mean anything in Irish (actually really means less in Irish than in English really) but they come up first on Google for "child services Ireland".

Higgins5473

Irish water has just rebranded to the beautifully creative “uisce éireann”. Wonder why? Thought there was a concerted effort by govt to go in the other direction and even rename existing bodies to English names, too toxic a brand so rename?

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905037#Comment_120905037

If my memory serves me correctly, in the early days of the web iarnrodeireann.ie was the corporate site while irishrail.ie had the passenger facing stuff like timetables and route maps.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905054#Comment_120905054

Really? What is Co. Dublin as gaeilge then?

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906282#Comment_120906282

Both Contae Bhaile Átha Cliath and Contae Átha Cliath are used. You can't say that either of them is correct or incorrect, and there is no rule that says a place can have one, and only one, name.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906293#Comment_120906293

It's either Co. Áth Cliath or Co. Átha Cliath. Baile is the city only. It is false to say there is no such place as Áth Cliath, hence my post.

artanevilla

Átha Cliath exists, it's at Ushers Quay there.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906297#Comment_120906297

The old Dublin County Council used Contae Bhaile Átha Cliath, and the GAA Dublin County Board uses CLG Chontae Bhaile Átha Cliath. It's true that Baile Átha Cliath is the name of the city, but a county can be named after a city (and in fact most of them are).

spuddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905185#Comment_120905185

There might be an element to that. However look at the legislation I posted above, they've brought in a law which makes it mandatory to have Irish only names, which is being applied for Irish Water

"The name change came into effect with the enactment of the Water Services (Amendment) Act 2022 by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Darragh O'Brien saw Irish Water become Uisce Éireann from December 31st, 2022, and a standalone regulated public water utility on January 1st 2023."

spuddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120904449#Comment_120904449

It's a public body is what makes the difference. If Irish was our only official national language, then there would be no discussion here.

YellowLead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906382#Comment_120906382

It’s just a name though, one doesn’t need to understand it. Whether something had an English or Irish name if you didn’t know what it was called you’d still have to google it or ask to find out .

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906297#Comment_120906297

When it comes to language lobbies and the Gaeilge in particular, it doesn't matter at all. As they'll just dream up a makey up name or word to suit needs.

As for the OP, it's all part of the creeping implementation of language legislation. Where you can't persuade a people to re adopt a language en mass by choice, you foist it on them by constitutional and legislative means.

SwissToni

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906366#Comment_120906366

This is the sort of crap that irritates me ( I know I should just let it go) the waste of money rebranding everything, vans, signage, stationery etc. I’m sure there were consultants, committees and a few working groups in on it as well.

Pity water tax never came in they would have had the money to rebrand more often.

spuddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906391#Comment_120906391

Completely agree it's just a name, I think you're missing the issue I see.

If I put it another way, if the legislation said public bodies had to be in English only, I'd be making the same point. The amendment introduced in 2021 for naming public bodies seems at odds with the Official Languages Act.

"TO PROVIDE FOR THE USE OF BOTH OFFICIAL LANGUAGES OF THE STATE IN PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS, IN ACTS OF THE OIREACHTAS, IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE, IN COMMUNICATING WITH OR PROVIDING SERVICES TO THE PUBLIC AND IN CARRYING OUT THE WORK OF PUBLIC BODIES"

dxhound2005

Is THE OIREACHTAS the official name for Parliament? Should it not be AN OIREACHTAS?

Higgins5473

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906366#Comment_120906366

Oh, I wasn’t aware of this.

But if that’s the case would that not mean they would all have to change? ESB, Enterprise Ireland, IDA to name a few off the top of my head?

spuddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120908785#Comment_120908785

You're highlighting a good point, it's a sloppy approach, as it only applies to new public bodies, nor does it apply to semi-states at all. You really do have to question why we do things in such a half-hearted way?

In the case of Irish Water, because of a legal change in its status, it's technically a new public body, and thus now must be called Uisce Eireann in line with the legislation.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905185#Comment_120905185

I'd imagine it's the same as most rebrands: a marketing director wants to be able to put on their CV that they've successfully re-branded oranisation xyz and were responsible for a seven figure budget... and there's an entire industry built around helping them waste money to feed their ego.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120908913#Comment_120908913

I think anyone looking to hire would see through that sort of nonsense.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909060#Comment_120909060

You might think so, but speaking as a Commerce graduate, HR was the specialty taken by those who weren't sharp enough to major in marketing... and that was looked down upon by those majoring in Accounting, Economics or Information Systems! 🤣

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909101#Comment_120909101

I have zero knowledge of this area. But just on a common sense basis, I find it shocking that those hiring for such high level jobs can be taken in so easily. And even more shocking that the current employers allow them to do a rebrand, just so that they can put it on their CV. And even more shocking again that it is all an ego feeding exercise. Outrageous stuff.