Work remotely in Berlin

JeanetteCol

Hi guys,

Im having a lot of trouble in trying to find the right information about working remotely in Germany.

I am working for an Irish company that have no problem with me working remotely from Berlin, but most of what I can find online, is that you can only stay for 90 days out of 180 days.

Does anyone know what the rules are around taxation, and any other rules.

A lot of articles are geared towards non EU states (Americans etc) so not very helpful, its not very clear what VISA you need for staying beyond the 90 days, but as a remote worker, and where your company doesnt pay tax in Germany.

bennyineire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058305934/work-remotely-in-berlin

Are you an Irish or another EU country citizen ?

JeanetteCol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879105#Comment_120879105

Yes, I am an Irish citizen.

bennyineire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879113#Comment_120879113

Then you do not need a visa, you are free to work and live in any EU country for as long as you wish. This is one to the key tenants of the EU, the freedom of movement of people and goods.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/moving-abroad/working-abroad/working-in-the-eu/#:~:text=Employment%20rights,health%20and%20safety%20at%20work.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058305934/work-remotely-in-berlin

As far as I know there is not right to do so. The FMOP rules give you the following rights:

• To travel to a member state of the EU/EEA/CH to seek employment in that state and to have that period extended for a further three months if the host state is satisfied that it is likely you will find employment within that period.
• To take up employment in a member state and if the employment contract is open ended to receive a resident permit for up to five years, other wise a temporary permit to cover the period of the employment contract if under one year.
• To establish a business in a member state of the EU/EEA/CH assuming you have a viable business plan etc...
• To receive permanent resident status after five years, if you have established an economically viable life style
• To take up residency in a member state for the purposes of family reunification (in this case you can work remotely or any way you wish)
• Retire to a member state of the EU/EEA/CH provided you have sufficient income from non economic activities, in other words pensions, dividends, interest income, royalties etc...

The purpose of the FMOP rules is to facilitate the Single Market, nothing more. I am aware of a few initiatives to include remote working in a future directive, but as far as I know this has not happened yet.

If you are a digital nomad, none of this matters much since you won't be questioned so long as you have an EU/EEA/CH passport. But of course if you want to actually establish yourself in Germany and be able to access all the services, you do need to establish residency. Probably the easiest way is via a payroll company, the payroll company won't have any issues about not being a local German business and you'll just have an ordinary employment contract with them. And at the latest after five years, you would get permanent resident status and then you are free to do whatever you want.

In addition to all this there are tax and social insurance implications for your company in having remote employees in Germany and while your immediate boss may have no issue with were you work, you many find tax and legal won't agree to it, once they are aware of the issues. So you need to be very sure of their commitment as well. Again, operating via a payroll company would address this issue as well.

Dale Parish

You need to find an English speaking Steuerberater and get proper advice or it will become very expensive.

You have to register your apartment in Germany. After you do that you are automatically issued a tax number.

JeanetteCol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879270#Comment_120879270

Thanks so much! My boyfriend is a German citizen and has researched in Germany, a lot of the information is confusing and sometimes contradictive. I know I require health insurance and a residency address, which is no problem, but the taxation rules in some German documentation, take you down the rabbit hole of double taxation.

I suppose im trying to understand who is the best to speak to, is it the German side or the Irish side. I have reached out to the embassy in Berlin, so waiting to hear back from them.

I want to go back to my employer with all the information for them, so that they can make a decision (with relation to changing my tax filings) Id rather remain with my company (of 14 years) than go with a digital nomad VISA .

So all the above, is as you said if i want to establish myself (for services etc) however, if I go and remain there (with the odd popping back to Ireland) would i come across issues in the airport? Is that something they check?

Thanks for your help :)

Alun

I lived in the Netherlands for a while working for a Dutch company and was sent on a long term contract in Germany, together with a number of other's from the same Dutch company. They set up a GmbH via a local Steuerberater, and we were paid via them, all fully tax compliant etc. although the German company had no real assets. Payroll was transferred from the Netherlands monthly along with payments to a car lease company for company cars etc.

JeanetteCol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879452#Comment_120879452

Thanks for your comment. My situation is a little tricky, as my Irish company has no dealings with Germany whatsoever.

Alun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879515#Comment_120879515

Neither did my Dutch company either until this contract came up. I'm not sure how they did it, but it seemed like a fairly easy thing to set up, although the main admin person on the Dutch company did speak German so it made communication relatively easy.

Maybe your boyfriend could contact a few local Steuerberater (tax advisors) and see what they say. I'm sure some of them would have sufficient English to be able to communicate with the Irish company.

There would of course be a charge from them to set this up plus an ongoing fee, and in our case it made sense because there were up to 20 people "employed" by the company at one stage, but it might not make sense for just one individual.

JeanetteCol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879593#Comment_120879593

Thanks so much .. more exploring on this to go :)

munchkin_utd

>although the German company had no real assets.

to set up a GmbH its not as micky mouse as setting up a company in Ireland. You (they) need 25k of start capital which they seemingly say good bye to until the company is wound up, so the company has that much in assets the whole time.

I know im being a bit pendantic but 25grand is slightly more than nothing.

Alun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880166#Comment_120880166

OK, I wasn't aware of that. I meant they had no offices, machinery or equipment, stuff like that. You're right that isn't a trivial amount of money to tie up like that.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120879411#Comment_120879411

To answer your last question first, strictly speaking you have no more rights to visit a Schengen state than a citizen of a third country, it's just that as an EU citizen they just don't bother tracking you down. So until the new Schengen System is introduced, you probably will get away with it for the moment. But once it is all hooked up, it will probably be more difficult. However it is important to understand that if they do check you, the burden of proof is on you to prove you are in compliance with the rules, they don't have to prove anything.

Your boyfriend should talk to his local community office (Gemeinde) and see what they are willing to do. In some parts of Switzerland (where I live) for instance, some of the states have what they call a concubine visa to cover such situations, if they can do something like that, he'd probably have to guarantee that if you were to become a burden on the state, that he'd being willing to pay. Or maybe they have some other suggestion.

On the taxation side, it's not that complicated. If you are resident in Germany, you will be taxed in Germany and provided you won't be in Ireland for 180 days or more per year you will not be Irish resident for taxes and won't be taxed there on income at least. But how you get to that point could be complicated as the two tax authorities have to agree it etc... but that problem is down the road for now.

But the consequences of having a Germany based employee for your employer needs to be looked at by a professional, for instance:

• Your employer might end up having to pay Germany corporation taxes
• Having to open a local German office, comply with local filing and similar rules
• Comply with German social security regulations - for instance the redundancy payments in Germany are almost five times higher than Ireland
• Comply with German pension requirements

In my experience I have never heard of an employer being willing to go through all of this once it is explained to them unless they already had business operations in the employees country. Therefore, I'd be very surprised if your employer agreed to this when they fully understand the implications. And for that reason I'd suggest you full consider the payroll company option.

JeanetteCol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880549#Comment_120880549

Thank you so much, that is so comprehensive, and I really appreciate you putting that together for me and definitely helps me a lot.

A lot of food for thought, I had a feeling it wouldn't be as straight forward as I initially thought.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond to me.

Have a great weekend :)

Charles Babbage

There is probably a business opportunity for an Irish business to become expert at this for major countries where people are likely to wish to work from, perhaps there already is, then companies in Ireland could deal with one place to sort out an employee whether they be in France or Germany.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880787#Comment_120880787

Not really, as I said there are move to include remote working in a future version of the EU directive, so you could end up putting a lot of money and effort into building a business that could disappear with the stroke of a pen. Plus of course if the OP simply goes down the road that most people in this situation does - a payroll company, then like most she would not even consider using your business.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880849#Comment_120880849

The Irish employer presumably have to deal with the payroll company. If they have employees in several countries they would have deal with several such companies, possibly even several within a country if the employee sets it up. An EU directive will surely help, but it would not necessarily mean that all the paperwork was simple and straightforward and an Irish company might be happier that their obligations were clarified by someone they always used, rather than someone chosen by the employee.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880787#Comment_120880787

Already been done -it's more than just an Irish problem:

https://www.globalization-partners.com/hire-global-talent/

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

If you're working directly for a company it's easier - youre EU, so you have the same rights as a native German, no visas needed, no restrictions placed.

if you're freelancer, you still have the rights, but the paperwork is trickier.

Fnd an English speaking tax-advisor/steuerberater when you're here. The stress saved is worth the cost.