12% minimum wage increase recommended

doc22

This seems like a little excessive, while business have been milking "inflation" in terms of price rises, this won't stop it and may lead to some marginal businesses calling it a day.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/2023/07/18/increase-of-more-than-12-to-minimum-wage-recommended-for-next-year-by-low-pay-commission/

enricoh

Beginning to smell like 2007 again! If the government jack up the minimum wage they'll be able to jack up welfare payments again in the budget.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058305548/12-minimum-wage-increase-recommended

...some businesses are milking it, particularly larger businesses/corporations etc, but most probably arent, as most businesses are sme's, and are probably barely getting things over the line....

...we really need to consider part paying such increases from the public domain, i.e. via taxation, particularly more so towards these bigger players, and deficit spending, to try reduce the pressure on these sme's....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866644#Comment_120866644

...increasing welfare makes sense, as this money tends to be spent straight into the economy, and less so towards debt repayments, savings and other investments....

Faugheen

And here we go with the nonsense that the poorest workers in society don’t deserve to get paid more.

They’re hard working people and yet a 12 percent pay rise is ‘a little excessive’.

Remember that next time someone bitches and moans about people who claim social welfare but yet you’ve others saying the minimum wage increase proposals are ‘a little excessive’.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866746#Comment_120866746

Relatively few people in this country actually earn minimum wage.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867064#Comment_120867064

It won't have the detrimental impact others are worried about so.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867317#Comment_120867317

Don’t you know it’s terrible for the economy to give anything remotely reasonable to the lowest level workers?!

The “squeezed middle” get themselves all in a knot about the poorer classes getting anything, it’s an excellent way of keeping them distracted.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866746#Comment_120866746

But they will probably end up spending the money in businesses that have had to increase their wages which they probably pass on to the consumer.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867364#Comment_120867364

...stupid spending and stuff, stupid businesses creating jobs from the increase in spending in the economy, its just stupid i tell yea!

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867425#Comment_120867425

What?

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867064#Comment_120867064

"Around 165,000 people, a group disproportionately made up of women, people with disabilities, young people and migrant workers, will be directly impacted by any increase."

From the linked article. Sounds like a lot of people will benefit.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867317#Comment_120867317

It's waffle. That's what it is. Hoping to get a few likes on a webpage.

Nobody is talking about "dole scroungers" but you. How many people are on minimum wage seeing as you are so concerned about them? Don't worry I will wait while you search google to get some information

Blarney_man

Bring it on! The faster min wage is coming up the faster crash will be here. We can all go back to basics after that

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867064#Comment_120867064

So what's the issue???

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867528#Comment_120867528

Plenty of people here sh*t on those who are on social welfare. If you aren’t aware of that then I would get accustomed before you start chatting nonsense that nobody is talking about it.

Why are you asking me how many people are on it? It’s in the article linked in the OP. Did you read it? Or did you just come in here to talk about ‘grown ups’ having a conversation whilst simultaneously acting like a child, and having zero self-awareness of it?

To save you some time:

”Around 165,000 people, a group disproportionately made up of women, people with disabilities, young people and migrant workers, will be directly impacted by any increase.”

You still haven’t said any reason why these workers shouldn’t get a pay rise, just that I am wrong.

Would you rather these workers get a pay rise? Or would you rather them stick two fingers up to those who don’t think they’re worthy and instead go back to social welfare and for it to come out of your pocket?

tastyt

I’m all for minimum wage being increased if it there is some sort of caveat to it . It should be for all companies with x number of staff or x turnover

But genuinely the margins between survival and going out of business for some small businesses with 7/8 employees could really be a 12% increase for staff . There’s a lot of coffee shops , fast food places , newsagents, etc that genuinely could not afford this

It’s easy for the government to play this card and try to appear they are fighting for the little guy , easy when it’s not their money and they’ll give themselves a nice little public/ civil service pay rise with it

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867618#Comment_120867618

Again you are the only one talking about "dole scroungers" and "sh*t on social welfare"

Why would they go onto social welfare instead of working?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867669#Comment_120867669

Because if they go working then you have the likes of you saying they shouldn’t get a pay rise.

Again I’d like to point out that you haven’t said anything as to why I am wrong in what I have said. Would you like to expand on that? You were the one who wanted to have the ‘grown up’ conversation after all.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867658#Comment_120867658

Coffee shops, fast food?

Fast food is strongly profitable.

I received data this week from the owner of a small independent shop in a city centre.

Cost of selling beverages:

cup + lid + stirrer + milk + sachet of sugar + allowance for heating the water (but excluding wages + overheads) = 26 cent per cup

Tea sells for 2.00, so the gross margin is huge!!

doc22

Based in this what does everyone think the next public sector pay talks will look like, surely you wouldn't begrudge your teachers, nurses ,garda and civil servants who keep the country running a similar increase...

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867658#Comment_120867658

...or maybe we should try to increase taxes on more wealthier companies such as large corporations, and possible partly increase the income of low wage workers from public means, i.e. by running a deficit....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867733#Comment_120867733

...i wouldnt like to see the size of their energy bills of late!

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867735#Comment_120867735

Considering we are losing doctors, nurses and teachers because the pay and conditions are so sh*t, then why not?

Plenty here, again, who would oppose it, but it’s all in the name of bitterness really.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867733#Comment_120867733

Rent, electricity and wages you left out which are the major overheads so the example is pointless. The gross margin is not huge

Geuze

85% gross margin is very strong.

silliussoddius

I wonder what margin this shop had?

https://fortune.com/2023/05/16/anticapitalist-cafe-toronto-the-anarchist-pay-what-you-want-closes/

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868163#Comment_120868163

Generosity and people in this day & age don't really mix

Get Real

I think the example of independent cafes, shops etc being under pressure over this is a bit of a red herring.

If an extra 1.40 per hour per staff member sends a business over the edge, it wasn't viable to begin with. How productive was that staff member to begin with?

A cafe for example, if they employ a staff member to make coffees, might make ten coffees per staff member an hour. The 1.40 increase adds 14cent per coffee.

If the cafe is highly popular, a staff member could make 30 coffees an hour. 3.5cent extra per coffee. A 1percent price increase roughly for a 12 percent increase in wages.

If your staff member is only making 3 coffees an hour, a coffee goes up by 46c per cup. But you'd have to question the business model of employing someone to sell 3 coffees an hour in the first place.

Scipri0

Work is supposed to pay but it's not, especially when it comes to minimum wage and all workers who work deserve at least a living wage. Lots of people out there breaking their backs and barely making an living. Some people will tell them to upskill but if everyone done that, they'd be none doing these type of jobs and we saw that during Covid these people were essential but it seems not as essential to have a living wage.

People who work should be able to be able to pay rent and bills and live decent lives, not living week to week wasting away you're precious valuble time just so a select few get to live out the best of their lives at the expense of yours.

We keep hearing that it'll increase inflation but that was and still is happening right now, we have greedy corporations taking the piss! It's always funny that most of the people saying that minimum wage shouldn't be increase are not on that wage themselves and quite a number of them would be well off. I thought jobs were there to help people make a living?

Ultan Courtney caused some surprise when he told an Oireachtas committee that the commission had received submissions from a number of workers arguing against larger rises in the minimum wage rate on the basis that it might threaten their future employment.

I don't think i really believe this unless they have cheap foreign labour that they imported for this type of work just like when Covid the whole country was supposed to be closed down yet we were getting people in from abroad to pick strawberries.

Guffy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867658#Comment_120867658

Pull the other one, I got charged 4 euro for a mocha yesterday.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058305548/12-minimum-wage-increase-recommended

12% a recommendation only,not compulsory.But it is election time-soon.Should take care a sizeable part of the 65 Billion "windfall".Will,also bring into question the survivability of many small businesses.Cost piled upon costs

ZeroThreat

The likes of Keelings will be up s**t creek if this goes through, although are they even paying minimum wage already?

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120869750#Comment_120869750

If Keeling cost goes up, then the price goes up. So they won't be up "s**t creek" because the customer is the one who will have to pay it

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867735#Comment_120867735

Current minimum wage is 11.30.

That's equivalent to an annual 22,600.

Starting salary for a CO in the public sector is approx 26,500 (varies a bit between org-types).

Of course it would have an effect.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867733#Comment_120867733

Why do you want to take out some of the biggest expenses?

Mortgage/Rent/Insurance/wages/water charges/Maintenance for machines./Power (you're not just heating water)

While some places might be gauging. Removing the heavy costs to come up with the price of a cup is a bit disingenuous

Geuze

I am simply repeating the information provided to me by the proprietor.

Of course I know there are wages cost + overheads.

But even with a low selling price of 2.00 in a city centre, there is still an 85% gross margin.

There is plenty of gross margin to cover overheads.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870474#Comment_120870474

How much rent for the city centre location ? how many cups of tea do they need to sell before it covers the rent alone before electricity and staff costs

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120869138#Comment_120869138

We’ve been hearing the scaremongering about businesses going under for years because of a few euro increase in wages for staff and yet the same talking heads making those doomsday fears are rolled out every year making the same remarks and they’re never being pulled up.

In 2016, the Restaurants Association in its pre-Budget submission called for a freeze on the minimum wage until 2021. Five years. That is nothing to do with businesses going bust, that is complete and utter greed. The same group make demands about changing up the work permit rules because they can’t attract staff here. You literally couldn’t make it up.

Many small businesses out there don’t pay the minimum wage because they understand the value of good, honest, hard-working staff, and they’re doing just fine.

Potential-Monke

I think the biggest issue when an increase in min wage is announced is that people who are not on minimum wage won't see any increase and will think that's unfair. But that's a different arguement, should everyone elses wages go up too. I'd like it if they did, but they won't, and that's where I reckon people have issue with it. Won't affect me anyway.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120872264#Comment_120872264

The ones who are going under don't go showboating on whatever tv station wants to parade the usual suspects on air.Restaurants and hotels together with pubs here have always had the poor mouth.There is a government department that inspects businesses for labour laws compliance.They obviously don't do their job 100%-possibly deliberately understaffed to avoid upsetting the business classes.If it did work then businesses would put up or shut up.

kneemos

If minimum wage goes up all pay scales will have to rise accordingly.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870359#Comment_120870359

It's getting to the stage that it's only young adults with no kids or a mortgage and are living at home with their parents can take up those CO jobs. The money is woefully sh1te.

I've no objection to a rise in the minimum wage but it would have a knock on effect for everyone else too.

lmimmfn

When minimum wage increases the cost of basic services increase, which causes inflation increases resulting in those using the services requesting pay increases to at least maintain their standard of living and on and on.

Let's put out the current inflation fire with some petrol!!!

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120884796#Comment_120884796

petrol and airplane fuel please

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120884796#Comment_120884796

Minimum wages don't drive inflation. They very very rarely increase faster than background inflation, and if wages don't keep up with background inflation then it's just a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich and that eats away at the fabric of society.

Minimum wages should be index linked and rise every single year. Corporations should be banned from writing in index linked price increases into their contracts ( like broadband providers increasing prices by inflation plus 3% every year)

The whole point of private capitalism is that entrapreneurs can do things more efficiently while in a competitive environment so they should be able to increase productivity through innovation and not just cutting employee wages and driving up prices

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120885495#Comment_120885495

Minimum wage doesn't live in isolation though. All pay grades above it are based on it. Raise minimum wage all other pay grades obviously have to increase and it would certainly contribute to inflation.

Akrasia

Let the higher paid workers negotiate their wage with their employers like they already do. But minimum wages are set by the state and the state should ensure that there isn't an ever increasing gap between the lowest paid workers and the cost of living.

If that means inflation then so be it. Ultimately inflation hurts people who own debt.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120885707#Comment_120885707

Minimum wages push's all wages up. Increases inflation

Ultimately it hurts everyone because from a tea bag to a car the price increases.

Akrasia

A 10% increase for minimum wage workers is 1.30 an hour. A 10% increase for someone on 40k a year is 2 euros an hour, 4 euros an hour for someone on 80k yet some people will try to blame the minimum wage earners for the inflation rate going up.

The government should set a livable wage as minimum wage and raise it in line with inflation. If higher wage earners want to keep up withijinum wage workers, offer them 1.30 extra an hour. Most wouldn't even notice if they got it or not

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120885813#Comment_120885813

It's not just higher paid workers, it's everyone in-between.

Akrasia

Everyone on above minimum wage is a higher paid worker than minimum wage...

batman75

As someone who works in retail whenever the minimum wage rises it rises for all employees regardless of their wage. You now have sick pay to pay as an employer which will gradually increase. You will soon have pension contributions to make starting in the next two years or so. Retail is on its knees in our sector of it. Same in the UK. People, who have spare cash, are spending their money on holidays and entertainment.

The problem with such an increase, any in reality, is that it will increase the cost of living to where the increase for the recipient is wiped out so its constantly tail chasing. The only way an increase in wages would mean anything would be for the Government to reduce it's tax burden on workers. For the Government to take measures to reduce the cost of living ie more housing, free GP visits for all etc.

We are fast heading towards a Scandinavian level of cost of living.