Civil Service Probation Issue

sunshine1230

Hi All. I would appreciate some advice from people who already work within the civil service. I commenced my role with Revenue in Jan. Since then I passed my 3 month probation report..but I have just failed my 6 month one. I understand the 9 month report is the crucial one but I am just wondering if issues will arise from failing the 6 monthly? Are there any knock on effects from this? ...Also is there any option to appeal? ...We currently have an acting AP & this person is proving very difficult for our whole team to work with. The AP appears to be on a power trip to the point of almost bullying levels. They move deadlines & then tell you you missed them. They have signed off my report following a phone call but had said we could meet to discuss it before submitting it. I like the job but they are making life very miserable at the moment. Im thinking of looking for another job as I dont want to stay another 3 months if they will just end up failing my 9 month probation as well.

SortingYouOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058305453/civil-service-probation-issue

It all depends on the situation, OP. What was the reason given for failing your 6-month review? Would need more information here to give advice but obviously be careful in what you share here.

Do you report directly to this AP? I'm assuming so if they signed off on your probation? What is your grade, if you can share?

crinkley

Defo ask for a record of the probation meeting

Pamelabeasley

Your probation could potentially be extended as a result of failing the 6 month review - what was the reasoning for not passing you? what grade are you, is it even appropriate for the acting AP to sign off/are they your direct line manager? I’d also speak to the Employee Assistance officer and if you have a union rep - have a paper trail of everything, send follow up emails to calls etc. if they keep moving the goal posts for work. Also might be no harm to confidentially approach your PO if that’s an option

delricyo

Definitely get your reasons for failing the probation. You need to really put your head down and concentrate on making sure you fix whatever is wrong.

I would also try and reach out to any colleagues of the same grade who are working in your area. Try and get some pointers on how best to achieve your goals. Also have a sit down with your line manager to see how you can progress.

chrisd2019

Hi,

when you say failed your 6 month review, you need to be more specific, do you mean you were given areas to improve or where extra attention was required. You say it was signed off though.

As well as dealing with your line manager, HR should be involved, usually if there are issues identified, you would be guided as to what specifically was required and appropriate training provided.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120865821#Comment_120865821

A pip is usually put in place for under performer's.

Watermelonsugar

Is there a performance improvement plan in place to address issues/ learning needs/competence you should be offered training, support and adequate time to develop skills/reduce.

The lack of discussion would be a red flag for me.

Speak to HR to log the issue, even just as a you are concerned about not passing probation and would like some advice. HR will ultimately complete the final sign off of your probation and if not aware until last minute, very little can be done.

I have seen this situation before and HR transferred to another unit/manager. They went on to pass probation and got a promotion soon after.

chrisd2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868047#Comment_120868047

True, but the original poster, has not mentioned this as an outcome.

Mrs OBumble

Speak to your union before going near HR.

Not in a union? Join one NOW.

tringle

I would have thought it was your EO that did your probation with you not your AP. I only know of one instance where an EO felt the CO wasn't up to scratch at their probation meeting and advised the HEO. The CO was moved to another section and is still there 8 years later.

TaurenDruid

1) Join the union, now. Talk to your union official about this, ASAP. (They will probably talk to you even though your application to join may not have been processed).

2) Your probation report (and your annual review) should never be a surprise to you. Managers are trained to not spring surprises on staff in reviews, but to address issues as they arise. Your acting AP clearly hasn't done this, if they passed your 3-month and there's been nothing said to you in between.

3) If I were you, I'd request a meeting to discuss before it's submitted. Tell your AP you need notice, as you're bringing a union rep. And I'd bring a union rep with you. Ask for a copy of the probation report, in writing, in advance, outlining the issues that led to their decision. Ask for a PIP that sets out clearly what you need to address.

As others have mentioned, unless you're a HEO, your acting AP should not be doing your probation report (unless your direct line manager is still on probation themselves)? But all of this sounds way dodgy, and some appropriate assertive pushback should see them pull their horns back in.

757TFFIU

I'm limited on what I can offer here as it's not clear what the reason(s) for the decision to fail your 6 month probation assessment was, but I'll write in general terms. Firstly, email this acting AP, ask for their help and show you're eager to resolve the issue. As others have suggested, join the union and talk to them.

Some other thoughts... were PMDS targets agreed with you within a reasonable time of you starting? Put it this way, it would lack credibility to be failing a person on their 6 month probation assessment if PMDS targets haven't been set and discussed within a reasonable period of starting. How can you meet targets at this stage if PMDS targets weren't set for, say, 3 or 4 months after you started?

Did this acting AP hold a mid year PMDS meeting with you yet, and were you marked as 'Satisfactory' or 'Not satisfactory'? It would lack credibility if the acting AP marked you 'Satisfactory' in the mid year PMDS assessment, but then failed your 6 month probation assessment. Either way, I'd ask for written minutes of your mid year PMDS meeting from this person.

Has this individual been organising appropriate training?

Have they emailed you drawing attention to concerns and offering advice on how to improve?

I've had to fail a person's probation once. It's something I'd genuinely rather never do again, because as well as a manager, I'm also human. However, the individual I failed was utterly useless to the civil service and among other things, the person was repeatedly late for work and had a number of unauthorised absences. There were also conduct issues which I won't go into. The final report to HR needed a wealth of information and evidence, including the minutes of meetings I had held with the person drawing their attention to issues (not just at the 3, 6 and 9 month probation assessment meetings, but evidence there was an ongoing effort throughout probation to resolve issues), evidence that I sought to rectify the issue by providing advice and training, and all the emails that I'd sent drawing attention to issues, both to this person as well as to my own line manager. As a HEO, the decision to fail their probation had to be agreed and signed off on by both the AP and PO (effectively to demonstrate this wasn't a surprise to anyone and I wasn't on power trip).

This person was entitled to see my report as well as the comments of the AP and PO, as they had the right of appeal.

It takes considerable justification to fail a person's probation. I'd start to push back a little bit if I were you, by seeking written minutes of all meetings held to date to draw your attention to issues and an account of the training provided to you. But as I say above, primarily email them looking for advice, show you want to fix the problem. If they fail your 9 month assessment without justification and you need to appeal the decision, it's evidence you sought to engage with this person to fix whatever the issue is.

I'd hold this bit in reserve for a little while, only if they're being totally unco-operative, and if they won't do their role as a manager and help you... You could consider asking for the emails they've sent to their line manager or HR outlining their concerns. If they won't hand them over, a subject access request will resolve that, or demonstrate they're just going off on their own without the approval of their manager, or seeking HR advice.

Best of luck!

Zara151

The best thing you can do is email straight up. What do I need to do to pass?

Join the union. Dont go to HR (that's just my advice).

The 6 month means nothing and you can't appeal it. The only thing is to work on the areas that mention you need to improve.