How to insure a second car without breaking the bank?

Ardent

I have a second car - a 17 year old BMW - that I want to be able to drive on the odd weekend. My current insurer won't let me add it as a second car to my policy, despite having been with them claim-free for many years. Rang a broker that specialises in multiple car insurance and their quote for a brand new policy is north of €800.

It just seems bizarre to me that insurance policies in this country apply to individual cars and not to the driver.

Has anyone here had additional cars insured in a cost effective way and, if so, how did you do it?

L1011

I don't believe there's anyone doing NCB mirroring currently, which was the way around this before. Try the usual set of brokers - there's a list in a sticky in the Insurance forum I believe - and see what comes up; that's the only way really.

There aren't that many countries where the driver is the sole insured entity.

CiniO

There aren't that many countries where the driver is the sole insured entity.

That's true, but also there's probably very few countries, where insurers who give you discount for years of claims free driving, suddenly tell you that if you want to have second car, then you are considered as someone with no driving experience and 0 no claims bonus. That makes totally no logical sense.

CoBo55

Do what everyone else does, put in someone else's name and drive it on you driving other cars extension 🫣

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848382#Comment_120848382

Absolutely agree, it total hypocrisy by the insurance industry. How the hell can they legitimately claim that you are an experienced driver with full ncb on one car but a novice with no ncb on a second car. It's just a p1ss take, otherwise you'd be offered the same ncb on the second car.

bazz26

With the car being 17 years old your stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's deemed too old for a lot of insurance companies to offer regular cover and it's deemed too young to qualify for a classic insurance. Normally to put it on a classic policy with limited annual mileage, the car needs to be at least 20 years old and you already need to have a normal policy on another regular car.

Maybe keep ringing around the various brokers.

mickdw

Ya classic policy is the only sensible option. For the right type of car, they will do that from 20 years old.

I've a 2000 Audi TT and it cost 240 quid per year. Must have a main car on a standard policy also.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848397#Comment_120848397

Its either this or a classic policy

standardg60

If you get, or are, named on someone else's policy you can use this named driver experience to start a new policy. You'd need at least a year though.

Ardent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849319#Comment_120849319

Yeah, that's how I got the €800 broker quote

Furze99

It's utterly illogical for motor insurance companies here not to cover additional cars in the same name. Subject to a reasonable limit, say 3 vehicles to avoid abuse. The OPs situation is perfectly reasonable and normal and their risk level is known to the insurer. You'd almost think that the insurance companies actually want to encourage uninsured driving.

A case for the government to get them in before the appropriate committee and look into this practice in detail.

AndyBoBandy

I have 2 cars insured under my own name, and now both are with the same broker (123.ie)

1st car is a 2006 BMW which I've owned since 2011, and it had a claim on the policy in 2017, so I had to start my NCB again from scratch..

In 2020 we bought a Tesla and had to start a completely new policy with XS Direct as we wanted to keep the BMW on the road, and decided to leave it as it was in it's own policy with the 3yrs NCB built back up on it... at the time XS direct were the only show in town for a brand new policy on a fairly powerful Tesla with 0 NCB... Can't remember what we paid but it was steep enough, and we renewed with XS again for the 2nd year... by the time year 3 rolled around XS had left the market so we had to shop around and went to 123.ie (for €885). Into year 4 now in the Tesla and paying €998 fully comp which is still fairly steep but it is what it is... was too busy to shop around so just renewed at their price....

about a year ago we moved the BMW also to 123.ie who quoted us about €600 3rd party which we were happy enough to pay at the time..... I guess with the BMW its easy to get cover as we've had it insured since 2011, but starting a completely new policy on a 17yr old car might be difficult..

honda boi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848397#Comment_120848397

Defo the best way here.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848397#Comment_120848397

If you're with Aviva, Liberty or Zurich, somebody needs to have a policy in place for the car in order for your policy's 'driving other cars' to cover you. This applies regardless of whether the car's policy covers you to drive it or not.

For example, Liberty has this in the terms and conditions for driving other cars ...

• there is a current insurance policy in place in another person’s name that covers the other car;

This started off as an urban myth and it did the rounds for years, even though it was a false rumour. Trouble is, the insurance companies heard about it and thought it was a great idea. Because it's precise purpose is to prevent the practice decribed above. Sooner or later, every insurance company will have this condition in the 'driving other cars' section of their policies.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120854476#Comment_120854476

I'm with Zurich and any car I drive has to have its own insurance policy, it can't be more than 15 years old either.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120854496#Comment_120854496

So, if the OP is in the same situation and you expect him to follow your advice ...

Do what everyone else does, put in someone else's name and drive it on you driving other cars extension

He still has to take out a policy on his second car. Or give your hypothetical 'someone else' the money to buy a policy.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120854716#Comment_120854716

No Mr angry person, obviously he needs to check his policy carefully. The only cars I'd drive using the extension would be my childrens and they fit they required criteria laid down by my insurer. It might happen one a year I'd need to use either of their cars.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120854768#Comment_120854768

If a claim is made the insurance companies will check to see who drives the car most. Then you'll have a claim and cancelled insurance which is a bigger issue.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857332#Comment_120857332

Wha? What are you on about? This site is getting back to normal again, posters spouting complete nonsense.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857406#Comment_120857406

Better than advising people to commit insurance fraud.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857424#Comment_120857424

It isn't fraud, this always gets trotted out on boards every time. Me hopping into my son's car to get the paper because he's parked behind me isn't committing insurance fraud. On better policies where the other car doesn't require an insurance policy of its own, driving that car on the weekend is not committing insurance fraud as the policy you carry clearly states you're insured to drive said vehicles. I have not told anyone here to drive uninsured, the onus is on them to make absolutely certain the vehicle they're driving meets the criteria laid down on their policy. Don't accuse me of it again.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857455#Comment_120857455

Agree I confirmed at last renewal that I'm covered to drive other cars fully comprehensive even if cars are not covered by another policy so long as car is not owned by spouse/partner

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857472#Comment_120857472

I think it must have a valid NCT if required as well. My daughter's partner has that on his policy, mine is very restrictive but suits me for the rare occasion I drive a different car.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857455#Comment_120857455

You are driving your SON's car not YOUR car. You are advising someone to register THEIR car in someone else's name so they can drive it using the "driving other cars" extension, that's the insurance fraud.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857782#Comment_120857782

AHH stop now, you're making yourself look ridiculous.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857799#Comment_120857799

To be fair, he’s not wrong. Just because a car is registered in someone else’s name doesn’t mean its not owned by you.

If I buy a car with my own money, purposely register the car in my fathers name, so that I can drive it on the weekends, that is insurance fraud.

Now do I give a bollox that its insurance fraud? No, I done it anyway.

Heck I even drove cars that don’t have an active insurance policy on them because I knew if I was stopped I’d still get away with it. All you need to show is your insurance certificate. Garda aren’t interested in the terms and conditions of your policy.

Am I condoning it? No. But thats what I done before I got motor trade insurance

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857940#Comment_120857940

I have never ever heard of an insurance company asking anyone for a receipt as proof of ownership of any vehicle ever, they use the document issued by Shannon.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858002#Comment_120858002

Let me put it to you in another way then.

You purchase a car for yourself, with your own money, and you put the car in somebody else’s name.

You drive the car, and you crash. You call your insurance company and explain what happened, and when they ask about the car you were driving, you tell them the above.

Do you think they would cover you in that scenario? Of course they wouldn’t, because it’s insurance fraud.

Just because they don’t regularly ask for receipts doesn’t mean it isn’t fraud. But like I said, I really don’t care what it is. I’ve done it myself in the past, and would still do it if I didn’t have motor trade insurance.

Maybe your just trying to make yourself feel better by convincing yourself that what you do is all above board?

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858292#Comment_120858292

Where did I say I'm driving a car like that? You're wrong, the insurance company will cover the accident as the driver, policy and vehicle conform to the stipulations laid out in the policy. I bought a car for my daughter last year which is obviously in her name, is she wrong to be driving it? No, I can't drive it on my extension because it's 07 which makes it too old.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858292#Comment_120858292

I did clarify this specific thing with my insurance company a few years ago as I was doing the same thing as you and wanted to be absolutely sure I was covered.

The lad at first said as long as it wasn't in my name I was grand but he actually rang back a few minutes later after he'd checked with someone and said no if the car was 'owned' by me, which was the specific wording on the policy and in my possession then it was mine and wouldn't be covered.

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857940#Comment_120857940

It's certainly not insurance fraud to do this.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858401#Comment_120858401

I'm afraid it is, just checked my insurance policy there and the word they use is 'belong' which is a better way to describe it.

You'd have a hard time explaining that a car purchased by you and in your full time possession didn't belong to you regardless of who's name it was in.

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858416#Comment_120858416

It's not fraud. By that logic, if I buy my daughter or son a car from my own money, register it in their name, then I'm committing a crime of fraud by driving it using my insurance. That's utter nonsense

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858444#Comment_120858444

That's exactly what I did, because of the 15 year restriction on my policy I can't drive it, but I certainly don't own it.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858444#Comment_120858444

Buying a car for someone for them to insure and use and you drive it the odd time is a completely different situation.

But you knew that.

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858572#Comment_120858572

It's the same situation-it's not fraud

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858416#Comment_120858416

I've never heard of them asking ever...

Anyway this is going round and round in circles so I'm finished.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858444#Comment_120858444

What logic are you using because if you read my post that is not the logic I used.

I specifically said if you buy YOURSELF a car and pretend it’s someone elses, that is fraudulent. Buying a car for your son or daughter is completely different.

The act of registering the car in someone else's name isn’t fraudulent, but if your lying to an insurance company about the true owner of a car in the event of an accident and making them pay potentially hundreds of thousands in compensation that is clearly fraudulent

How can you even argue with me that that is not fraudulent?

Allinall

For a motoring forum, there’s an awful lot of posters with a lot to learn about insurance.

Trying to “get around” clauses in insurance policies is fraud.

Ever heard of good faith?

in the event of a large claim, anyone that has tried anything regarding driving other cars, where in reality the car is theirs, is in for a serious awakening, as well as a day in court.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858589#Comment_120858589

There's a reason why some companies insist on the car having a policy and posts like yours are why it'll become more common.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120859906#Comment_120859906

Well fine if they do so be it. One thing that is irrefutable is that insurance companies are ruthlessly efficient at looking after themselves and by extension screwing their customers.

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120859099#Comment_120859099

Because it's not. It does not matter if you drive a car belonging to son or daughter, or "someone else", the legality of the situation stays the same. It's either a crime or not, and it's not. The registered owner of the car is the official owner-There is no crime involved in driving another car registered to another person, so long as your insurance permits it.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120860178#Comment_120860178

For a second time, you haven’t read my post.

I never said registering a car in someone elses name is a crime

I never said driving someone elses car is a crime

I said hiding who the true owner of a car is in the event of a crash and costing an insurance company potentially hundreds of thousands of euro in damages due to the fact that you lied is most certainly a crime.

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120860223#Comment_120860223

I've read the posts. The "true" owner of the car is the registered owner.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120860255#Comment_120860255

Ok. If it makes you sleep better at night.

mickdw

In case where someone purposely registers a car in another name for the sole purpose of driving on extension, you will not be insured should insurer have reason to investigate.

When large claims arise, do not underestimate the ability and willingness of insurers to find out the truth.

dontmindme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120861780#Comment_120861780

The 'truth' as you say is finding out if the insured conformed to the conditions laid out in the policy. If the insurance policy stipulates that no active policy needs to be in effect on the other vehicle "not owned by the insured or spouse/partner", then I am insured to drive it under my 'other cars' clause.

Owner is defined by the name on the ownership document - the VLC.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120860255#Comment_120860255

If by 'true' you mean the legal owner, that is not true. In fact, there used to be a bold line of text on the old (brown) registration book which stated that the registered owner was not necessarily the legal owner of the vehicle. And that is still the case.

Say I sell a car to someone. I hand over the keys and the registration cert. (which I should not do) and he hands me the money. Legal ownership of the car transfers to him there and then. Now say he never sends the cert. to Shannon with his details on the back and he drives it around for 6 months while the car is still registered to me.

During that 6 months, who owns the car? Answer: he does. Since the day I handed him the keys and he handed over the money.

mulbot

when you sell the car, you(the seller) keep cert, get new owner to sign it and you send it in. Otherwise if you don't, the new "owner" could drive around racking up penalty points, hit and runs etc

Also,the registered owner of the car is the person responsible in law for that vehicle.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120861960#Comment_120861960

So if I follow the correct procedure when selling a car, by keeping the VLC, I can report it stolen as soon as the buyer sucker drivers off? How does the new owner of a 2nd hand car insure it without the VLC? They have no insurable interest in a car that someone else owns, so can't use it till the VLC is posted out to them.

I recently got a brand new car and you don't get the VLC till it's taxed, does that mean if I don't tax it I don't own it?

pah

It may not be insurance fraud but if the Gardai get involved the owner of the vehicle can be prosecuted for not having insurance while the car is in use. Do you want to risk that for said person?