No smartphone ban could be extended from primary to all schools. Do you agree?

gaiscioch

Following on from the universal ban (phones, tablets, smartwatches) in Dutch schools las week - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66107027 - and Fnland's ban on phones in schools last month - https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/finland-to-ban-mobile-phones-in-schools/ -

This morning:

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/07/13/no-smartphone-policy-for-primary-students-could-be-extended-to-all-schools-says-minister-for-education/

Do you agree with a complete ban on phones in all primary and secondary schools?

I think it's long overdue, especially due to the impact of overuse on attention spans and focus [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0747563218301912]. I expect from anecdotal observations that academically weaker students are weakened further by the constant distraction of smart phones.

SouthWesterly

My kids schools ban phones. Primary and secondary

Treppen

If definitely agree that weaker students suffer more. They're banning them in our secondary next year.

Don't know how Ireland can do a blanket ban though, as we know the Irish government don't run many Irish schools.

2011abc

Some of the kids are looking at their phones almost every waking minute including in school .It actually pacifies some of the worst behaved .On balance though I’d say they simply HAVE to be banned

solerina

They are not allowed in my school officially but they are being used constantly anyway, I can’t see it happening at PP unfortunately, parents go made that they cannot contact their children despite the fact that the school phone could easily be used !!

NIMAN

Yes I totally agree.

My child started secondary level and the school insisted they had to have a phone, for Google Classroom apparently.

Since they got it, they are obsessed with it. Surely the school could function without kids needing a phone?

HazeDoll

Kids have a lot more freedom in secondary, often leaving the school grounds at lunch time and going to friends' houses after school. I think parents find it easier to give the kids this sort of freedom if they have phones on them. A lot of them use revolute to pay for lunch from parents' accounts.

Our rule is that a student can't have their phone out unless a teacher explicitly told them to use it.

Parents moan about this sort of thing but if you ask a class how many of them have to hand their phones to their parents at bedtime they look at you like you're suggesting that they surrender a lung. In school the kids are surrounded by their friends, there's plenty going on. It's at home in the evenings when they're not with their friends that they spend hours on their phones. Parents have to deal with this one by laying down some strict guidelines with their kids, even if it makes them unpopular with their precious offspring. Try that first before making it another problem for teachers to solve.

maude6868

I would love to see them banned. It's a constant struggle getting students to put away their phones. However, every time it's brought up in staff meetings a number of teachers insist that they need students to have phones to access OneNote. Depends on the subject taught I guess. I teach English.

elperello

Some second level students are over 18 years before they leave school so they are adults.

Would this be an issue with a total ban ?

SuperBowserWorld

Definitely.

They are toxic.

How many people on here admit they are affected, addicted to their phone. That it affects their mental health. Me, definitely. How much ****, porn, bullish have you scrolled through on your phone. How many days, months wasted.

And we are willing to give them to kids.

Also, definitely bad for backs and eyes for those kids who are susceptible to myopia who are staring at even more screens rather than going outside.

amacca

A ban has to be accompanied by actual enforcement.

A ban wouldn't have the worth of used toilet paper if there will be effectively zero consequences for non-compliance and the power to enforce it simply won't exist.

So although I'd be of the opinion they should be banned I'd have zero faith in it being a worthwhile move given the broader context......

It's no coincidence bans seem to happen and work well in schools with good discipline and the ability to apply consequences....I'm not necessarily blaming the schools that don't have these things btw, it's frequently not their fault they don't have the tools available to follow through/hold the line on something like this.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120846390#Comment_120846390

Contact reception

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120846736#Comment_120846736

No. You sign up to school policies as a condition of enrollment.

looksee

I taught adults and it was amazing how many eejits thought that you would not notice that they had the phone under the table, head down, texting away. Often then expecting you to repeat specific instructions when they finally surfaced. In fairness adults generally are much more attentive than teens so it wasn't overall a huge issue, it must be a nightmare with children allowed to have phones in class.

gaiscioch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120846323#Comment_120846323

The point about pacifying some of the worst-behaved students is 100% perceptive. The phone is a godsend in classroom management as a distraction for the kids who could otherwise be distracting/disrupting everybody else's education. There are a couple of moral and ethical issues in deciding what to do there when "writing off" a child to phone land.

And a number of times when I have applied the same rules to the weakest kids as to everybody else, senior school figures have given them their phone back and said 'Look, we need them to be in school at all costs' (and variants of that logic). At the end of the day, the weakest kids are, in my experience, coming out of the whole phones-in-schools issue much worse than the more academically able kids.

gaiscioch

I also think the biggest problem in a school in implementing this is in the staff room. We need every single teacher to be on board, in every single class. A teacher covering an S&S and allowing kids to go on their phones so that the teacher can get their work done is a problem, as are all the other similar 'dealmaking' variants across the school. If there is no debate and they have no option at all of ever having a phone in school, students will adapt once the hope of getting to use a phone is gone. Make no mistake about that.

am_zarathustra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120852068#Comment_120852068

I'd 100% agree, it's anecdotal from my own experience and from correcting but its the bottom that are damaged by phones. The good students are still good students, we haven't lost them but weaker students are more susceptible to the dopamine hit they are not getting from aspects of education.

When the London School of Economics did a survey on this a few years ago they found the same, socio economically disadvantaged students faired worst, very able, socioeconomically advantaged students faired best. Middle students were still middle students and didn't change much at all.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120852068#Comment_120852068

That last paragraph particularly is why it'll always be a balls trying to implement a ban

Discretion is very much the better part of valour nowadays when it comes to rules...and keeping them in school trumps almost everything else even if the issues are driving a coach and four through the standard of education for the majority imo

lulublue22

Being honest I'd love phones to be banned in all schools for everyone. When I started teaching ( primary) not that long ago it was a huge no no for staff to be on their phones or have a phone in school. Now adays it is the go to method of contact in our school. We are all on google hangouts and the phone is going all day long. It is a total and utter headwreck.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120851470#Comment_120851470

Yes a student would enter an agreement at age 12/13 but would that be enough when they become an adult?.

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856028#Comment_120856028

From 4th year our local secondary asks you to confirm your place prior to returning in Sep as part of that you agree to school policies - so an annual agreement is in place.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856609#Comment_120856609

Thanks for that.

A new agreement on turning 18 would seem to be the best solution.

Not without it's problems though.

SouthWesterly

In primary they are confiscated. Secondary have introduced pouches that are locked until home time . Ive heard some kids have a second phone 😀

gaiscioch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120855886#Comment_120855886

Banning phones for teachers as well could be a good idea - lead by example - while also having access to the internet on one's laptop for any work-related things.

Tech_Head

I’d vote to ban phones but get the technology in place to allow calls and texts on smartwatches. It’s not as good as going from phones to nothing but it gives people ease of mind that they can be reachable and you won’t have as much doomscrolling on a smart watch.

Vodafone brought out theirs albeit very restricted. I want to use my smart phone less and this will definitely be one way I’ll be doing it.

lulublue22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857091#Comment_120857091

I must be a total luddite but I would absolutely hate that - now it could also be due to the sheer volume of messages in work but I would hate to replace a constantly buzzing phone with a constantly buzzing watch. There is nothing that happens during the school day that demands instant notification and or reply. Yes it is a handy way of disseminating information but that’s all it is. It is part of this always on mentality, instant response mentality which is not a healthy mindset for a balanced lifestyle

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120856028#Comment_120856028

As I’ve told the odd 18 year old, they’d be free to leave and not come back. My house, my rules.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857481#Comment_120857481

Agreed 100%

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857539#Comment_120857539

Unfortunately a sensible approach like that isn't always prevalent.

Tech_Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857481#Comment_120857481

Each to their own. I have a smart watch and phone. Most of the notifications are off on the phone and they are also pretty limited compared to a phone which means less screen time.

You also can’t get distracted as easily - ie getting a notification and then browsing the internet.

So that would work for me.

maude6868

I never bring my phone to school. I find it beyond frustrating to be contactable when I'm at work. If anyone desperately needs me they can ring the office. I want to teach in my class without being bombarded by messages from teacher groups or the school. The staff room has become unbearable with teachers scrolling on their phone rather than chatting. Now, I'm old school, teaching for 30 years but we managed just fine without phones in school and to my mind everyone was less distracted and more connected. Over the past while the job has become way more stressful because management have us on speed dial. I'm part of management myself but I've made it clear I will have no phone on me at any time during the school day and anyone who wants to contact me has to come in person. I believe an outright ban would make our job less stressful.