M50 Toll

Sadb

Ok, this is a strange one so sorry, it’s long!

My son passed his driving test last year and drove on the M50 with my car, for the first time back in May (we live in Cork so not a regular occurrence). Being an ignorant 19 year old, he didn’t realise it was even a toll road and so we got a letter with the fee and penalty. As he was dropping his friends to the airport, friend agreed to pay and did.

A few days later a second fine came- for the southbound journey, I don’t know why they were on separate letters but anyway, ds paid that. Each letter had a photo of the bonnet and number plate of car. Driver/ passengers are not shown on the photo.

On 4th July, we drove to Dublin airport for our holiday and parked in the car park for the week. When we were waiting for our flight home yesterday, I realised I had completely forgotten to pay the m50. So when we landed back in Dublin, I paid for two trips. I realised that I probably had a letter at home with a fine but paid for the two trips anyway.

Got home and letter here from eflow but for 29th June, 2 trips. Northbound and southbound 7 minutes later (??!!). 1 photo of northbound journey. Ds had gone to Dublin for a concert but didn’t think he drove on the m50. I insisted he must have- he was in Dublin that day after all?! So told him to pay.

This morning, new letter from eflow arrives. I presumed it must be for 4th but no, it’s for 3rd July 16:09:44, northbound, with another photo (our flight on 4th was 12:55 so not simply a date misprint). Now, I know for 100% certainty that no one drove through the m50 on 3rd, because I had an appointment at 4pm in the hospital. So, at that time on Monday 3rd, the car was parked in the south infirmary in Cork.

Now I’m questioning whether the fine from 29th is accurate- if ds did drive on it, why would he go northbound and southbound 7 mins later. Has anything like this happened to anyone? It is our car in the photo for 3rd and 29th. I’m baffled as to what happened here.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058304752/m50-toll

Could be a cloned plate. Investigate all photos to see if it's definitely your vehicle with all small details. If in doubt, ring them and be nice. Get a video account: it's free, toll is cheapper and they knock the penalties down if you open an account. However, they won't refund for what's paid as you already have accepted your liability by paying. Video account would read your reg and charge your automatically by direct debit. However, if you have a cloned plate, you need to ring and they may help on investigation. If found to be true, you'd need to go to Gardai and report. You have very little time as they can't get aged images but you can give copies of the ones you got in post. If you had an online account in the first place, you've paid cheapper toll and haven't got penalties, however, if it's a cloned plate, you'd still be charged for journeys done by some other vehicle with same reg. But you could see these trips in your online account whenever you wanted to.

Also, it's not unusual to get lost between the exits taking a wrong turn, turning around and getting back would easily explain a 7 min gap between the trips. This is more than enough to make a trip between the exit 6 and 7 off peak.

Sadb

Thank you. The photo for 3rd July is not a cloned plate, it is our car because we have a strip missing on our grill and the photo does show this.

Yes, I presumed that the 7min gap was a wrong turn/wrong way scenario, but I 100% know that the car did not go through the m50 on 3rd July because it was over 250km away, so now that I know they sent a photo and fine for when we did not drive through, how can I know that the other fine is legit?

It’s very strange, it is our car but I know it wasn’t there.

Hotblack Desiato

It's more than a bit worrying that a newly qualified driver can drive past a large number of extremely large road signs while remaining completely oblivious to what is on those signs. The VMS signs have reminders to pay the toll, too, when not in use for other things.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841441#Comment_120841441

Maybe the image wasn't clear and the reg couldn't have been read automatically so was passed to a manual review and was posted later. This would explain a date or time being different than expected. Just count how many trips are done and you'll know. Ideally, don't give a car to someone who can't manage to pay for the trips they make. Otherwise, make them to open an account and add a vehicle temporarily for the period of days to cover their trips. That way they would be liable. But if they don't pay, then it always come back to the car owner.

HeidiHeidi

Whatever happens with all the fines, make sure you get a video account ASAP. There's no charge and it will prevent any reoccurrence of all this confusion.

Sadb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841567#Comment_120841567

Ya, he’s an idiot, thanks for the input.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841701#Comment_120841701

While these signs are huge and there are 3 of them one after the ofter. Some have more info than the others, and can seem a bit like a billboard due to its purple colour. However, not in idiot, but not paying attention to signage to say the least 😉 I worked in a call centre in eflow and I know how many non-Dubliners call as they aren't fully aware and they don't plan the road properly, even though there's a governmental website etoll.ie with a map and all tolls there. Even though Google maps show it's a paid road, even though there are signs, even though it's way over 10 years there... It's just the nature of people to miss some things. We aren't perfect.

Sadb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841588#Comment_120841588

But it would have just charged for when we didn’t drive through anyway, would it not?

I shouldn’t have bothered with the long backstory, I just wanted to give some context. But the actual issue here is that we got a fine and a photo of the car going through the m50 when it 100% did not, has anyone had this happen? Has anyone had luck requesting a full photo showing the driver?

crossman47

I have a pass so just get a monthly statement of charges, etc. On one occasion it included a journey I definitely hadn't made. I rang, they checked and cancelled the charge. They were easy to deal with.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842604#Comment_120842604

But with account you can review journeys with photos prior of getting penalties and can dispute the journeys easier, even before the money has been taken from your account.

And from my experience working in a call centre, when someone says they are 100% sure it's not their vehicle, over 80% times they are wrong. I then have a conversation with them reminding of why the driver looks, what was the day of the week, time, direction and magically they often remember. Even if you are 100% sure, I recommend you to not use such a claim as you can't watch your car 100% of time and most cars have two keys.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842636#Comment_120842636

Yup, exactly what I've already advised, but yet OP hasn't came up with an update what they've called, but do have time to reply here...

Sadb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842875#Comment_120842875

Thank you but it was parked in a hospital car park in Cork at the time that it was apparently going through the m50. I had parked it there about 20-30 mins before the photo was apparently taken on the m50, and it was still there when I came out about 20-30 mins later. So it is actually impossible for it to be in Dublin at that time.

So in the call centre, you can see the full photo and could describe the driver?

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120843342#Comment_120843342

Yup, when M50 toll call centre was managed by another company, we could. I don't know how it is now, but I suppose their guidelines shouldn't have changed much. They are until 9pm so you just need to ring and say you're confused about this trip as you're adamant that vehicle was at the time parked at another location. Ask them to review the image, perhaps it is another vehicle with a similar reg. Maybe there's a screw or dirt in the middle of the letter/number which made the system to read the reg wrong... and they possibly will open up the image on the screen. There is no same agent: new guys will pass it on to the back office to review which can take a few days or even longer, senior agents usually are very good at this and spot the problem even before mentioning what it is. I absolutely loved resolving such mysteries.

Keep a letter beside you when they ring as they may ask for a journey number for a clarification. Query about other journeys too if you want. As I said, some things could be different now, as I worked there some good 5 years ago. But I'd always help in such cases if the person doesn't scream or harassing (they get those all day long).

dmn22

My father was getting charged for passing through the toll multiple times per week as someone had cloned his reg. I believe it was easy enough to prove fake as the fake reg was used on a truck and he was driving a Mondeo at the time but it does happen!

zg3409

As others have said set up a video account. Then ring and ask them to double check. As said the date shown may be wrong if it was reviewed by a person before being posted out.

The main thing is to have a video account so you don't get issued fines, everything else is small money and they have a full photo and probably multiple photos from front and rear so they can check if correct make and model and colour and driver.

gijoees

Hi,

Received a fine for 2 journeys, south bound and northbound. Although it was later than the 8 o clock tomorrow evening, I paid it before the fine came out. Anyway, ignored it as it thought it would just go away as I had it paid and they say to ignore if already paid.

Second fine came out for one trip southbound for €46.50. So the €7 I paid they allocated it to the northbound journey even though I clicked on pay toll not pay a fine. I am thinking about just ignoring it and letting them continue to send letters. A friend of mine done this and even though it followed up with solicitors letters and over €2k, it just stopped. Tried to email them and explain but not having any of it. Like, they misappropriated my funds of €7 for 1 trip even though I didn't even click into fine section.

Anyone else have experience with this? Will they follow it up or should I just ignore?

G_R

Just call them and explain, they're very reasonable.

When you call, be nice and don't mention misappropriation of funds, or solicitors letters or anything like it. Just explain what happened, they'll reapportion the money you paid and cancel the fine.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121082978#Comment_121082978

If you paid after 8 o'clock next day, then your payment was towards a trip plus the first penalty. Instead of blaming others, accept your own fault and pay the rest. Just because your friend got away, doesn't mean you will get lucky too. Get a video or tag account and the agent will waive the penalty for the next trip. However, a penalty paid for the first trip cannot be reallocated (at it that's how it was when I worked there years ago). As far as I know, eflow call centre is now operated by another company so they could have slightly different guidelines, based on the contracted agreement with the TII.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083435#Comment_121083435

Only if the first penalties for the driver for the vehicle. Next penalties wouldn't be cancelled. So they can be indeed reasonable, but also follow their own guidelines. And yes, the poster should be nice as they are the offenders. The problem when someone rings and try to arrogant and aggressive. That usually leads to not getting a penalty waved as it's under the agent's discretion (at least it used to be, when I worked there over 5 years ago).

Nigzcurran

Just get a toll account, video or tag. I can drive up and down the length of the country through tolls with no worries, its a no brainer

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083550#Comment_121083550

Exactly. And M50 is cheaper with the account. No hassle because of direct debit.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083550#Comment_121083550

Just to point out, the video account only works on the M50 toll, nothing else. The tags work all over the country however!

Hotblack Desiato

Can't be difficult to get good video camera coverage of one lane so why not allow video account holders to use the express lane on non-M50 tolls... for infrequent users the tags are bad value

Nigzcurran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083934#Comment_121083934

They are a euro a month!

TherapyBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083934#Comment_121083934

Have 4 tags currently with ParkMagic/TollTag.ie who have an option not to charge a monthly fee for tags. The tag costs a little more when you use it, €2.30 for M50 toll + 0.23c for the usage charge (€2.53 total for M50) but if you don’t use the tag it costs you nothing. Been using them for years now.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083934#Comment_121083934

Registration recognition cameras for moving vehicles in a high speed the cost is very high. These are different cameras from the ones used for parking barriers where vehicles aren't moving. Other tolls are managed by other companies, so not sure if those would want to pay for eflow to process and manage the images.

Hotblack Desiato

You're supposed to slow down to 60km/h in the express lane are you not? and can be diverted out of it back towards the toll booths if the tag won't read, so the same could be done if the plate wasn't correctly matched up to an active video account.

The installation of ANPR on the M50 was very expensive, but that's multiple lanes and 120+km/h traffic and the possibility someone could change lane at the wrong moment, and I'm sure the technology is a lot better and cheaper now.

I live practically next to the M50 but only use the tolled section maybe once a year, sometimes 2+ years between uses, so 1 euro a month fee would work out very expensive per trip. @TherapyBoy that could be a good option but I only use the non-Dublin tolls if holidaying in Ireland...

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087648#Comment_121087648

That's not how it works. Transactions appear on the system next day, and not being validated in a real time. Tag would still work if account is closed. You'd just get a penalty. Currently barrier tolls have no active way of issuing penalties. And the video wouldn't be capable to match the reg against the account in a split second. You're completely wrong assuming on how the system works.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085386#Comment_121085386

If you have an EV this is the cheapest way to avail of the discount. There's no discount with the M50 video account.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121089466#Comment_121089466

That's not how it works either :) Each of the tag issuers upload lists of tag numbers to the eToll system. Blacklist is for tags that are lost or stolen or accounts that are closed or don't have enough funds. When your tag is read, it is compared in real-time to that list. If your tag is on the white-list, you can use the express lane or the barrier will lift (for non-M50 tolls). For the M50, the toll will be charged to your tag account. If your tag is on the black-list, the express lane barrier won't lift and you will be redirected to the exit lane and up to a normal barrier lane to pay. For M50, it's similar but without barriers. I presume a tag payment is used to remove the toll trip for a car with a matching car reg.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096310#Comment_121096310

Ah, your explanation is much better and more detailed so thanks for that. However, it's still not a real time system as the list doesn't get updated instantly.