Have we forgot the celtic tiger collapse.

Read two articles today, one about Nama, remember Nama? The other was about individuals and families who are still in danger of losing their homes because they got restructured mortgages and split mortgages.

Does anyone know someone who never came back for the collapse of the Celtic tiger?

zell12

Fianna Fail & Greens in government, soft landings, stop talking down the economy..

The Celtic Tiger was class. Great days.

denismc

The boom is getting boomier.

Reading the pieces, it's was like a blast from the past but for some it's still on going, still carrying celtic tiger mortgages or wiped out by the down turn and never recovered.

z80CPU

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120827259#Comment_120827259

YEAH OP, STOP THAT. NOW. :D

Wanderingmind

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058304344/have-we-forgot-the-celtic-tiger-collapse

Plenty never came back from it.

For example my OH is waiting years on a repossession because the lender was never willing to engage but it's there when they want it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828823#Comment_120828823

Whole different world now and different economy now, my point is more about the individuals who were wiped out by the downturn or still struggling with Celtic tiger issues in 2023. A colleague told me a house they purchases in 2006, has only now in 2023 returned to the price they paid they paid for it.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828625#Comment_120828625

Was handy for getting a cheap tradesman for a job in the house.

Can't get anyone nowadays.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828892#Comment_120828892

you couldn’t bribe a tradesman nowadays to do something

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828945#Comment_120828945

tiocfaidh ár lá

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828886#Comment_120828886

Could they afford the mortgage? The resale value of a house is only relevant if you want to sell it.

z80CPU

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829225#Comment_120829225

relevant question.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828945#Comment_120828945

I don't expect cheap labour for tradesmen jobs but the quotes they are giving are absolutely ridiculous. Even for jobs that require very little materials they are giving silly quotes. But it seems people are paying these prices.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829297#Comment_120829297

I'd say there's still a lot of cash around with deposits from the pandemic.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829297#Comment_120829297

It doesn’t matter if you are willing to pay exactly what they ask or even bribe them, you can’t get them to do anything that’s a “ small job “

Sleepy

Absolutely, have a leaking pipe under the sitting room floor that I've had two plumbers show up, take a look, recommend leak sealer and subsequently ignore my calls cause they don't want to dig out the floor... head melt.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829225#Comment_120829225

They long ago sold for a variety of reason it worked out well for them but one of the pieces was about individuals with split mortgages and the like, and it's still an issue years later on the other hand I know someone who took out a 35 year 100% mortgage and it's worked out well for them so a lot of it is circumstances.

Arthur Pants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828625#Comment_120828625

Were you around for them, Doc?

Any stories of excess to share?

z80CPU

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829418#Comment_120829418

you're not the only one. got bathroom renovated for dad (rip december 2022) renovator 'outfit' never replaced pipes. cue me lashing out more money to pay for remedial work by plumbing team which I mircalously found. they had to rip out bathroom floor and put in the new pipes.

I then could not get labour to put in replacement bathroom tiles. Oh, I got replacement tiles alright, had to put them in myself. Then I bought bathroom carpet from IKEA, brought home in a taxi (cheaper than IKEA's transport btw) and laid it myself.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120828631#Comment_120828631

Testicles everywhere.

Lewis_Benson

Ah the boom.

When you'd have steak 3 times a week, go for breakfast every Saturday morning, and eat out twice a week.

Wiping our arses with 50 euro notes.

Buying apartments that weren't even in the planning stage.

I did none of the above.

Bought a house in 2006, both lost our jobs In 2009, didn't find full time employment until 2013.

Hadn't a penny to our names for near 4 years but just about scraped by.

BattleCorp

I did good and bad out of the celtic tiger collapse.

Almost lost my job and ended up having to change roles in the company I was working for and went from a decent wage to a minimum wage job from 2009 till 2011. I actually view it as being lucky that I got the minimum wage job rather than being made unemployed.

Bought a house in 2009 just before the demotion in work. Spent all my savings €40k doing it up. It was some struggle to keep up the repayments on minimum wage. The house is now only just about worth what I paid for it and what I spent on doing it up. So I guess I was about 14 years in negative equity there. Didn't matter too much as I didn't have to sell the house but it was painful seeing lads buy similar houses for less money a year or two later.

After 2011 I started to do well again because I got my old job and old salary back. And I also got a promotion. In 2014 I bought a house for €250k that was for sale in the boom for €790k. I reckon I got a great deal because that house now is worth at least €500k.

All in all, a few very tough years but overall I think I've come out pretty well out of it.

It didn't work out for many though. I've a relation who lost his business and lost his house. It's a long way back for him and he's only starting to head in the right direction now.

Sonic the Shaghog

I'm 33. But Jesus the amount of ones that were late teens at least that should remember the nonsense would shock you.

I'm seeing people take out massive mortgages they can barely service to build or buy mcmansions again. I could understand that somehow as housing is gone mad

But Jesus the same people with 2 new cars usually Audis or mercs is the latest I've noticed all on tick and you hear them moaning they have months of arrears in tax cause they can't afford it

The houses fitting and finishing like furniture etc all on tick to the last to have it Instagram ready. Then the latest fashion, new Samsung or iPhones at €60 a month and lastest gear

Weekends away constantly, loans for summer holidays etc

Most of these can't be pulling more than €1,000 a week between them. They range from 27/28 up to mid 30s I've found. Older tend to be more cautious and the younger the few I know usually are wiped from rent etc so cut their cloth I've noticed

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120831836#Comment_120831836

That’s exactly how normal people did it years ago before the big credit boom . Spent what you had to , and absolutely no more on the house. Did as many jobs on it as you could yourself. Saved and got by on as little as you could.

My late mother sold modest south side Dublin family semi D in height of Tiger, as only child gave me the proceeds on which I paid due tax, bought an apartment to share with her plus a duplex for letting. Paid off car loan. Have a disability now, so a bit marginal in that I’ve had to make home improvements on account of my condition, but I might not quite have been able to do that without the Tiger.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838467#Comment_120838467

It’s good to hear a good story from the tiger

zell12

'Sitting on the sidelines, cribbing and moaning is a lost opportunity. I don't know how people who engage in that don't commit suicide because frankly the only thing that motivates me is being able to actively change something' - our dear leader Bertie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838864#Comment_120838864

Will Bertie or Pádraig Flynn on the late late show be forever quoted when anything about money in Ireland or the Celtic tiger?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838231#Comment_120838231

I dont know any individuals or couples-like that I find younger people are a lot more cautious destination weddings have really dropped off.

badboyblast

The savings built up in the country at the moment are crazy after Covid, I think the real truth will start to bear its fruit next year at some stage.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838961#Comment_120838961

Of course. We elected them to represent us, they reflect our views.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839566#Comment_120839566

How people are saving anything or have much extra considering the price of stuff now compared with just 3 years ago.

Your money does not buy you as much. Am I missing something here?

Andrea B.

Stayed in a company with toxic atmosphere for 4 years too long.

Needed the pay and was grateful, at the time, that I had employment.

Never really shared with people as to what affect it was having on me, as it would sound petty compared to other peoples misfortunes.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839969#Comment_120839969

At the end of 2022, Irish household savings amounted to just under €7bn. To put that into context, Irish household savings stood at just over €3bn at the end of the third quarter in 2019 https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2023/0504/1380635-ireland-household-savings

doc22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840248#Comment_120840248

I looked at that I thought it was an amazing amount but divide 7 billion against the 2.5 million working it might work out at 3k each. Then include pensioners....

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840248#Comment_120840248

Be careful here. The first sentence you quoted is badly phrased.

People often confuse stocks and flows.

7bn is not the stock of household deposits.

Households own over 130bn of deposits in financial institutions.

The 7bn quoted here seems to refer to the flow of new savings.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840672#Comment_120840672

I saw that afterwards and was going to correct it, but what the heck it is RTÉ. Total household savings was €148.6 billion end 2022

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839969#Comment_120839969

There's essentially two groups in Ireland. Homeowners and those that don't own homes. The ones who don't are paying extortionate rents etc. The ones with a mortgage or outright own their home are in a better state. Someone who owns their home went through covid with less outgoings and so savings built up.

Geuze

Households have been saving strongly, and repaying debts.

positron

I remember the boom, the bust, the troika, the nama, the negative equity...

Boom - I was young and new in the country and watched the house prices going up and up and it got harder and harder to rent. Decided to buy for myself in 2005 (for personal reasons, engaged etc) and decided to go with FirstActive bank's Offset mortgage. I work in IT and salary was okay (not great, lets say slightly ahead of a school teacher). By 2007 my house price could have been up by 60% (in paper), and we saw 3 bed houses for sale in Drogheda for 430k, and couple of 1 million dollar new builds came up in Grangerath (half the town was in on the open day, just for the laugh).

Bust - In 2007/8, Subprime lending rot started, AlliedIrish bank, troika, nama, my house probably halved in value (again, in theory, we weren't looking to sell). Negative equity by about 100k. Luckily I was still working in IT, no salary increase for 2008-2015 or so. In 2015, new neighbours bought a copy of our house for 80k less than what I paid 10 years ago.

Around 2018-19 house prices were probably back to where it was in 2005, but it never went crazy like 2004-2007. Our house is probably 30k more than what I paid for it, but by now I have spent another 50k extending it. And of course it's our home and we are not looking to move, so its' all irrelevant.

Real cost of the downturn is the stagnation of the economy and how you are tied to it. Between 2004-2022 IT salaries grew just 1.5-2x in Ireland (outliers like FANG etc exists but for general average software guys in average IT companies) where as they went 4-8x in US, 6-12x in UAE/India etc.

Anyway, can't complain, after all it was my own decision to buy it in 2005!

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840781#Comment_120840781

Such a simplistic view.

Some renters are on very high salaries renting out a room in a house/apartment

with no mortgage and potentially No Car. No home insurance. No mortgage protection. No management fees. No home maintenance bills. shared or no utility bills.

Everyones circumstances and ability to save will be different regardless if renting or owning a home.

Not to mention the group living at home with mammy paying fck all.

patmahe

The collapse of the Celtic tiger impacted me in two ways.

1. I lost my job in 2010 (due to the economic downturn that was still ongoing) and it was the best thing that ever happened to me, I hated that job and was only staying in it to pay bills etc. I was in a proper rut, I was fortunate and was only out of work for two months and loved my new job, I felt, valued, challenged and useful. Ironically I left that job for something more 'stable' and that rut feeling is back.
2. I had bought a house in 2007, thankfully skint so bought at the bottom end of the market, when the downturn hit the house lost less value than the huge celtic tiger ones so the gap to get to the next rung was reduced. Like everyone around that time belts were firmly tightened and managed to save a few quid over a long number of years. Was a long time trying to sell the first house, but then all of a sudden in the space of a year the stars aligned, old house sold, a suitable fixer upper came on the market in a nice area and have been there ever since, still fixing.

I know a lot of people were very badly impacted by the collapse, but it changed my life for the better in those 2 ways when it happened. It also taught me to look for opportunity when things go bad. The leap that seemed impossible previously might suddenly be much closer, or even forced upon you.

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120829225#Comment_120829225

The extra tens of thousands wasted in interest because of the higher mortgage balance is a bit of bugger though.

Over in the Who’d live in a house like this thread, this house was posted. €1 million for, essentially, a dormer bungalow in rural meath. No landscaping and the barest paving done. Photos staged with an Audi R8 outside. You’d no more drive an R8 on those crap roads.

Not saying a bust is coming but sh1t like this makes me think both sellers and buyers have lost the run of themselves.

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-riggins-dunshaughlin-co-meath/5291178

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841000#Comment_120841000

The extra tens of thousands wasted in interest because of the higher mortgage balance is a bit of bugger though.

Market values are always at the whim of the economy, don't pay x for a house if you're worried the value will drop.

Likewise, be aware that mortgage interest rates can fluctuate over the term of the mortgage, so even without being in negative equity you could find yourself paying €100s more a month on a variable rate or tracker mortgage. No one complains when rates are low though.

SuperBowserWorld

How's the national debt working out these days? Those savings could come in handy. 😁

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841190#Comment_120841190

next government will probably take them within a year or two of coming in to power, so do not worry.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841190#Comment_120841190

Increased massively during 2020 and 2021 due to COVID.

riclad

You can still buy a house for 250k, gen z does not remember the celtic tiger collapse , we have lending rate rules on the banks, eg you can borrow about 3 times your salary ,if some idiot wants to pay 1 million for a house in the country thats their problem, can they borrow 1 million on a average house in meath from the bank ?

i,d be worrried buying a house now considering the ongoing war in the ukraine could effect interest rates or other economic factors in the eu if it destabilises the russian government

mikemac2

"no recession in their house" was the goto phrase. That and "grand for some" was another phrase on the go.

Once I was rushing somewhere and Dublin Bus let me down once again so I flagged a taxi. Three old biddies at the bus stop said the no recession comment after me.

I read somewhere that if you bought a new car around that time some begrudgers would key it out of spite. No idea if that was true.

Ubbquittious

Anyone who doesn't want to relish in the spending frenzy of buying overpriced concrete boxes and overpriced everything else should just commit suicide!