Sale agreed but worrying surveyor's report - what to do

sineadab

Myself and my partner went sale agreed on a property in Dublin a few weeks ago. We received the surveyor's report yesterday. There are very big and worrying repairs to be done:

• Sagging roof (surveyor unsure if this is recent)
• Leak with unknown source
• Garage to be replaced
• Porch to be replaced
• Difficult insulation due to it being a dormer bungalow

And those are just the main jobs!!

We are paying Dublin prices for this house which means there isn't a lot of money to spare, particularly for a job this big. Can I ask anyone in the know of house repairs is it worth even approaching the vendor to ask will they reduce the price (there was a bidding war so they have plenty of other potential buyers for the house) or are we best to withdraw now?

Thanks for any tips and advice.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058303073/sale-agreed-but-worrying-surveyors-report-what-to-do

Usually you need to get an idea of exactly how big those problem really are.

How much is the roof sagging. Is it dangerous or not or just an old house?

Find the leak and get it fixed. Is that really that big of a job?

Does the garage really need to be replaced or has it got another 10 or 20 years in it?

Same for the porch.

Is the difficult insulation really that big a problem? Wouldnt be the first dormer ever bought.

sineadab

Thanks for reply. The roof may collapse if left as is eventually. Also there are lots of potential reasons for the leak (bathroom upstairs, junction between extension and house not sealed, problem around window above). The garage is unstable as is the porch (both are rotting). As well as this there is a shed with asbestos attached to the garage, window frames need to be replaced, ventilation and electricity not within standards etc.

kirk.

Price would need to reflect all this

Princess Calla

I'm not going to give advice , without seeing the problems no one can really advise.

However, it is the surveyors job to nit pick everything. If they don't highlight every issue and it goes t*ts up in 6 months time..they'll potentially be finding themselves in hot water.

Leak is probably chimney, loose tile or gutters.

Could you get a roofer in to have a look at the roof before you go any further.

Garage and porch are "nice to have" things , they shouldn't impact the structure of the main house. Need to be replaced....could last 6 months in their current condition or 6 years.....visually you should be able to tell yourself.

10-10-20

Without being harsh, it sounds like you're biting off more than you can financially chew. Older houses have defects and all roofs will collapse in time - that's a given - but you need to consider the severity and probable duration before each defect becomes critical and weigh up the costs versus what you want to put into the property. If it's an immediate issue with the roof then a discount could be requested alright, but if it's a 15 year expected time-span then that's within the realms of normality and no discount should be requested.

As for a bathroom leak, a good plumber given good access to the units and time will fix the issue, but just be aware that there may be consequential damages to finishes.

looksee

In other words you are buying a site that you will have to clear. The price should reflect this or walk away.

You probably don't have to replace the garage immediately but you will need a new roof, new windows, new porch, complete rewire, mystery leak and consequent replastering, though you will have replastering to do if you are doing the wiring etc. Dodgy extension connection, asbestos removal (specialist firm). Do you have maybe 150k to do it? Depending on size of house of course, and you will usually need new flooring, new kitchen and bathroom, re-decorating, you won't get much change out of 100 to 150k.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120787769#Comment_120787769

However, it is the surveyors job to nit pick everything.

My point exactly.

The ventilation and electricity issues are simply "not to current spec" but they were presumably to a previous spec, so they are probably still acceptable/functional. Again, it all depends on what you want and whether you're expecting new-house-standards from an older property.

Claw Hammer

Walk away. you will never get enough of a discount to do the work. Most people underestimate the cost. If you didn't notice a sagging roof until the surveyor pointed it out, I take it you are inexperienced and lacking in knowledge of building. The place is a money pit. It is not for widows and orpahans.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120787742#Comment_120787742

All that would be too much for me tbh.

If you know what it will cost you going into it and you thing the sale price plus the renovation price as well as time to do then you will know if its worth it to you.

sineadab

Thanks all for your advice, appreciate it!

Stanford

The main question is did you go Sale Agreed SUBJECT to the surveyors report?

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788558#Comment_120788558

Isnt that standard now. I doubt there any any sale agreeds you cant get out of anymore.

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788558#Comment_120788558

What difference has that ever made

MrsBean

We recently went sale agreed on a property in Dublin after a bidding war, so right at the upper end of our limit. Following a survey report, and a phone call with the surveyor to get a better sense of how bad things were, we got a chartered structural engineer to look at attic conversion and extension roof that had sagging, leaks, and need replacement. We got a quote for works required and used this to renegotiate the price as we did not have tens of thousands lying around to fund remedial works.

We had to consider whether we even wanted to proceed with the purchase as our original offer was for a house that was ready to move in to and paint the walls, not a house that immediate needs structural work done and the upheaval and costs associated with it.

I would say getting a second opinion is good, but one that can give you an estimate of costs with which you can negotiate the price.

I would also say you should consider if there may be planning issues with the property (lack of certification has arisen as an issue for us now) and also if you are happy to move ahead on a house that ultimately different to what you originally offered on.

Very best of luck with it and feel free to message me if you want any recommendations or info.

the_amazing_raisin

Doesn't the mortgage provider require a copy of the surveyors report before you can drawdown the funds?

I imagine if the repair works are significant then they'll back out, or will require more details and probably won't value the property high enough to get the mortgage needed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788558#Comment_120788558

Deposit is fully refundable until contracts signed, sale agreed is not a legally binding contract so no need for it to be subject to a surveyors report.

Alkers

You need to get a handle on the cost to rectify the issues identified by the surveyor, you could ask them to give an opinion on this or you could engage a QS

That will inform your decision as to whether you can afford to buy this house as is, or what level of discount would make it affordable for you.

When you have the costs, then you can seek to renegotiate with the sellers from an informed position and you can furnish them with extracts from the survey as well as QS reports as evidence.

From a pragmatic perspective, if it's an old house, trying to bargain on the widows needing replacing or wiring and ventilation not being to current standards is a waste of time, this is to be expected and even a lay person should determine same at a viewing.

However the issue with roof and also the garage and porch (if structural) may not be evident toa lay person and in my opinion would be fair game for negotiation now that you have a professional opinion on them and an idea of cost to rectify.

I have successfully renegotiated following a survey, agreeing on circa 50% reduction of the identified costs to rectify. Your bargaining position is that any other prospective buyer will likely encounter the same issues when they get a survey but the seller may just reject your attempt to bargain and tell you to take it or leave it, particularly if there are many other interested parties.

Negotiation following survey happens all the time, best approach depends on whether the price you've agreed is value or not for the current condition of the house

kirk.

Who'd want the hassle though on your own home

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120787742#Comment_120787742

You should walk away and find something further from the city and newer within your budget. It will be a money pit that you probably can't afford and it's too much hassle

wildwillow

You need to run away. not walk, if it actually as bad as you say. Many old houses are money pits and you will never be finished repairs. It sounds like a project for a more experienced person with the budget to do a thorough job.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788852#Comment_120788852

It's not even their own home yet, haven't gotten that far 😕

Stanford

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788821#Comment_120788821

People are free to enter any kind of contract they like, if the purchaser signed contracts with the sale being subject to a satisfactory surveyors report then thats fine, if it was not subject to this then he can be sued to complete the sale, I'm simply asking for the facts.

Stanford

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788821#Comment_120788821

So please explain what one does to move from 'Sale Agreed' to signed contracts?

Stanford

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788607#Comment_120788607

You haven't answered the question, it makes a big difference

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788776#Comment_120788776

No, getting a survey is entirely optional and not required for a mortgage.

The OP would be mental to go any further without getting quotes for remedial work. These problems are only the ones visible to the surveyor, there's likely a lot more lurking below the surface.

If OP doesn't have a big contingency fund, then it's probably time to walk away.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790929#Comment_120790929

Sign a contract.

Sale agreed, is just an agreement in principle to buy, the buyer pays a small deposit, the EA takes the property off the market (not always). That is when the solicitors, surveyors, lenders etc get involved, a contract of sale is prepared and assuming all parties are happy, contracts are signed. But up to the moment the sale contract is signed, either party can pull out and the buyer gets a full refund of their deposit, hence, making sale agreed subject to survey is about as useful, and binding as making it subject to the sun shining.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790924#Comment_120790924

Perhaps you're not familiar with Ireland?

Being sale agreed is not legally binding

OP, unless you think this house will be your forever home, and is in your dream location, I think you should consider other options. There will always be other houses.

It sounds like this house has a lot of problems, and you may not be able to afford to fix them all, if its already at or close to the top of your budget, even if you negotiated a lower price.

Anything to do with roofs especially, is very expensive.

Best of luck, whatever you decide.

C3PO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790929#Comment_120790929

Seriously?

drogon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790929#Comment_120790929

Have you ever bought a property in Ireland or just talking through your arse ? If you are sale agreed, both the vendor and seller can drop out if they wish.

Case in point where a seller decided to back out of the sale - https://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/65957-house-hunters-who-went-sale-agreed-in-ballinrobe-housing-estate-devastated-after-homes-sold-to-a-single-buyer-instead

Marcusm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790929#Comment_120790929

Since 1690, oral contracts for the sale of any interest in land have been precluded in Ireland. “Sale agreed” is a status invented by the property industry to reflect the fact that a tentative, non-binding agreement has been negotiated between a vendor and a purchaser. A binding contract will usually require confirmation of the availability of finance, appointment of conveyancers and the undertaking of legal searches along with the preparation of a written contract. It would be highly unusual for anyone to have proceeded that far without having a survey done on the property - this is one of the earlier preparatory stages! (I’m treating you as if you are asking a genuine question.)

Stanford

Yes that is my understanding of 'sale agreed' also

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794314#Comment_120794314

It is since 1695 not 1690, when the Statute of Frauds (ireland) Act 1695 came into effect. Oral contracts are not precluded but may be unenforceable. "sale agreed" is always "subject to contract" when a registered estate agent is involved. The contract is deemed to be made only when both parties have executed it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120794518#Comment_120794518

I don’t think it is your understanding, if you think sale agreed has any type of binding commitment by either party and should/can therefore be made subject to survey. There would be no need, the buyer can walk away anytime they want, for any reason they want, prior to the purchase contracts being signed.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788776#Comment_120788776

No. They need a valuers report.

basucally from a estate agent saying the house exists, is as described i.e number of bedrooms and the value is correct

topal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058303073/sale-agreed-but-worrying-surveyors-report-what-to-do

You will find most of these kinds of issues are common with older houses and 'priced in' to the asking price.