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By the People for the People - Is there a Demand for a New Party

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  • 30-06-2023 2:08pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭


    Is there a demand for a new political party in Ireland and if so what would you want it to look like, what are the issues you would like to see addressed and would you consider getting involved with it on a local or national level and if so what would that involvement look like - grassroots or even elected office?


    Threadbans:

    paxreseuropa

    Post edited by Beasty on


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Don't see demand no.

    Theres currently 25 registered parties.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,708 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    There is a probably a gap for a more right wing party to spring up and capitalise on - there just isn't a leader charismatic enough to tap into it.

    Until then you still have a myriad of parties to support. Like all democracies you will never agree with 100pc of any party, its just a matter of picking the one you prefer over the others(I.e. the least worst one) or else the lad(y) who got the road fixed or a grant for changing your windows



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,857 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    There's a gap for a more honest central party, that's it. No one actually hates what FG, FF, Lab, Greens stand for. The Greens are to naïve with their ideas, they are fundamentally good but don't live in the real world and after being to a green party meeting, they have no taste for actual evidence , just buzzwords. Labour had a decent base but their leaders got consumed with power and ruined it for them. FG and FF are basically two sides of the same coin. If their management weren't so corrupt (not all of them, just some), they would be ideal parties for the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I would be up for this ...the People for an 80s Party where we could all dress up and dance like its 1984 ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭thegame983


    Couldn't hurt. right now there is no one worth voting for.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,857 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,708 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox




  • Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭macraignil


    If the new party is as full of incompetent people as the existing ones then there's not really much demand for it from what I can see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,780 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Anyone who asks this question here always, always turns out to be in the 2% of the electorate that already split their scant votes across the existing multiple right wing parties.

    By all means found one and make the electoral counts even more hilarious



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ireland has quite a low barrier to entry for new parties given the multi-seat constituencies and transferrable vote.

    If there was strong demand for a new party we would see it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,130 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    1984 dancing what What WHAT, There will be NO dancing in the dystopia of 1984,none Nada Nein.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Being conservative, I'd say no. The problem from my viewpoint is the expansion of the state's regulatory and oversight powers: key example being the government being able to deem what is permissible to demonstrate where/speak about about for "the greater good".



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,437 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I thought this was going to be about the US.



  • Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭onedmc


    The problem isnt the need for a new party. What people want is personality. No one gives a damn about a policy they just want a leader with compassion that looks and sound good.

    One that can stand up in the dail and say that they have been in the queue, they were on the waiting list. One that can interfere in the minutia working of the civil service. And most importantly one that has no concept of governance.

    Bayby hugging and policy just doesn't cut it anymore



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Some people like to have a go at the 'loony left' a lot, far more than they deserve as they've never actually been in power. FFG have been in power one way or the other for about 100 years (not always called FFG), in that time they've been swapping their time at the trough and more recently been sharing it. Corruption, greed etc has been a key ingredient to their time in power. Another key ingredient is their desire to see young Irish people emigrate. They see that as economically important, one of the Lenihans stated that Irish people emigrating was a good thing. House prices and rental prices are at record highs. Of course, many in FFG are landlords and own properties. Funny coincidence. Other parties like Labour, Sinn Féin and the Greens talk a good game but in reality they will go along with FFG.

    Let the 'loony left' have a go! What's the worst that can happen? It'll be a bit of craic anyway. At least they will look after the homeless, young people, people on low incomes etc. They will go after people on far too much money. The RTÉ goons wouldn't be getting away with their freeloading under their watch. Of course, people on high salaries will hate this, they want the status quo, the left brings a rage out in them. Trying to make our society equal is of no interest to them. I'd happily take a pay cut to improve issues noted above as well as improving things like the health service. You want a fairer, more equal, happy society with less greed and corruption? Then vote for the 'loony left'!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,469 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    "... a new political party". To represent what?

    Left?

    Right?

    Centrist?

    Monster racing loony?

    I mean, PR means we have a very wide spectrum of parties already in existence, while the voting system allows for a fairer reflection of the opinions across the electorate, theoretically anyway. It also means what tends to win votes is social or economic centrism; safe policies that at worst show an unwillingness to make rash swings - but that also guarantees stability and consistency. The rot of complacency and idleness can be a side effect, but hey ho.

    Honestly, I'd be shocked if that isn't the angle here cos yeah, invariably that's where these threads go. A frustration that what amounts to niche views, likely heavily right leaning, don't curry more broad support. Cue some segue about the "silent majority" then the thread gets closed when it pivots to a desire towards persecuting others as policy.

    Ireland doesn't have an appetite for populism, it's as simple as that. The reasons why might be diverse and complex that I couldn't even speculate, but broadly speaking we just don't have an interest in leaning towards more ideologically extreme parties - such as with Italy and its constant cycle between hard left and right politics.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,445 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I think there's scope for consolidation on the Left. Soc Dems and Labour ought to be under one tent. Their policies are broadly appealing with respect to the major issues of the day, certain in contrast to the ghouls in government currently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,193 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    While it's true that there are a lot of parties it's a little bit misleading. I was looking at the register recently and I was surprised at how many parties were on there that I either thought were dead (Irish Communist Pary, Fís Nua) or I'd never heard of (United People, Party for Animal Welfare, Reform Alliance).

    • There are 9 parties in the Dáil - 2 of whom have only a single T.D.
    • There is an additional party with a single seat in the Seanad - Ronan Mullens's Human Dignity Alliance
    • There is an additional party with 2 seats in Europe - Independent 4 Change
    • There are an additional 6 parties only represented at local level (1 with 2 seats; 5 with a single seat)

    Putting all of this together the majority of parties have either no elected representatives or are effectively one-man/woman bands.

    Although there is a low barrier for entry history has shown that it's extremely difficult to get a new party off the ground. The successful exclusively come from either splits (e.g. the PDs, Soc Dems) or from movements (e.g. the Greens, PBP-Sol)

    If we look at the parties that have at least 5 elected representatives across all areas (so out of a possible 1,181 seats) the names become a lot more familiar, with just:

    1. FG
    2. FF
    3. SF
    4. Greens
    5. Lab
    6. Soc Dems
    7. PBP-Sol


    Of those 2 are typically classified as centre-right, 3 as centre-left, one as left and one as far-left.

    What we don't have is any party of the right or far-right.

    Whether that's because the electorate don't want them or because there aren't any suitable parties that the voters find electorally palatable* is up for debate.

    One argument against saying that Irish people don't want to elect more conservative politicians is the existence of the Irish Rural Independent grouping whose members tend to tick a lot of those boxes. Given the reluctance for those TDs to coalesce into a new party it's difficult to see them being anything more than a loose technical grouping of parish pump politicians. They also tend to act as a sponge for right-wing votes in their constituencies thereby making the emergence of a right-wing party more difficult.


    *a lot of the nascent far-right parties are run by a bunch of characters who most people see as creepy weirdos.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,387 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...if the next government is deemed a failure, we ll probably see a rise in the extremes, shur that should be a bit of craic!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,003 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Nah, Irish people will vote for the local lad who got their mammy a subsidised bathroom extension, or their daughter a council house or whatever personal favours they could get.

    Party policies mean nothing when it comes to parish pump politics



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,387 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ..oh the next ge will be interesting, we re experiencing a rise in more and more floaters, that ll turn up some surprises....



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,068 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    I think we've left it to the EU/Social Media to be our new overlords. We'll bitch and moan and sing about the rare old times when we were kissing the UKs ass.

    I think it's a shame we went from UK -> catholic church -> EU/Social Media without actually having a substantial number of years as a proud independent nation.

    Our next overlord will be AI.

    Ah, what could we have been, except we were afraid to go our own way. Afraid, too busy with our snouts in the trough. 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭Rustyman101


    French riots should be a major wake up call for Europe, its not working never has never will.

    We hopefully we have some different choices in the next GE, if the current policies continue we are in serious trouble, I genuinely fear for the future of my kids.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,446 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Always right, people who start the countless threads of this ilk. But they're often evasive about at first, and claim to only be seeking 'honest' or 'competent' politicians. But look at OP's posts in other threads, particularly immigration ones, and it'll be pretty clear where they are coming from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,437 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    What do the French riots have to do with the EU?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,058 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    We had a massive recession in 2008+ causing serious hardship, yet still we voted FF & FG 2011, 2016, 2020. Our own fault.

    We have a ridiculously fair PR voting system (envied worldwide), which accurately reflects us



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,387 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...what were the true alternatives at the time? we clearly have a strong history of ffg lead governance, since the creation of the state, but this does seem to be changing now, even though the potential alternatives are a bit....

    yup, the pr system has its fault, direct democracy such as switzerland does seem to be the way to be, but theres no real want for it...

    ....do we really want alternatives such as first past the post?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,193 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    I'm a huge fan of our electoral system but I think it's a stretch to say that it's "envied worldwide". From my experience it's extraordinarily rare that our system ever comes up when PR systems are mentioned in other countries (most likely because of our small population).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,494 ✭✭✭touts


    The problem in Ireland is the voices of reason increasingly get shouted down by the extreme left and more recently even the extreme right. Extremists like Brid Smith and Paul Murphy have been spreading propaganda for years and are given a free platform on RTE to spread their message of hate. Hate anyone even one rung above you on the economic ladder. This has seen the far right starting to emerge. Meanwhile the centre is being ignored and shouted down. We need RTE to be more balanced in their panels and challenge the far left more. If that happened the drift to extremism would quickly halt and there would be no need for new parties.



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