Strange New Worlds S2-E3 'Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120791473#Comment_120791473

SNW is supposedly isn't doing arcs so we might not see that till the final episodes of the season.

eadrom

Yeah, I wouldn’t be holding my breath for big season long arcs to develop. Rather I think there’s just a lot of things happening in a “it’s a big universe” style of thing, and they may or may not come back to any of it again.

Remember Sybok? No, neither have they.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120792268#Comment_120792268

I forgot that whole episode. I keep thinking that eeeeevvvillll panto bad guy was a Discovery character.

ItHurtsWhenIP

I've been noodling this episode around in my brain for the last day and a half. I'm really disappointed about not-Kirk (H/T to @~Rebel~) ... like, he seems to be mostly for comic relief here and a bit of eye candy for La'an.

There's also some major inconsistency with his abilities ...

1. Can't use a freakin revolving door ... fine.
2. Does the "Goes backwards shtick" before driving off" ... 🙄 fine.
3. Then out-of-nowhere, executes a perfect J-Turn! 👀

The rest of the story is moderately interesting and well done.

I'm thinking that there will be some significance to the watch and I think it might be ...

Spoiler Warning

Pelia is in La'an's quarters sometime, spots the watch and says "That looks like a watch that I have." She goes and retrieves her watch and shows it to La'an.

A time paradox commences and we have Burnham show up as the Red Angel, cry a lot and then ..... OK ... OK ... maybe not this last part. 😋

But what would it mean to her current timeline?

corkie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120792268#Comment_120792268

Or why we never see this character again?

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Angel_%28Captain%29

https://screenrant.com/strange-new-worlds-star-trek-sybok-mistake-fix/

It would be kind of interesting to follow up on his story?

Spear

They made an effort to cast Sybok, and filmed scenes to introduce him. It'd be an odd thing to have no follow up.If nothing else I doubt they'd commit the money to it if they didn't.

CastorTroy

I'm sure they won't forget about Sybok. After all he would have ties to Michael.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120793485#Comment_120793485

How did I never think of this before.

Michael is Sha Ka Ree. Not the fake god Kirk defeated but the real one.

corkie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120793512#Comment_120793512

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sha_Ka_Ree

That is a place and not 'The God'?

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120793485#Comment_120793485

Ah fcuk. I forgot about that. And I was happy to have forgotten about that.

pixelburp

Definitely not a patch on last week's but was okay, entertaining enough; maybe the spectacle of the first two needed paying back this week, hence this week being set in modern day Toronto - was a cute idea not to try dress is up as New York or something.

The whole thing was obviously a vehicle for Singh to reckon with her lineage, and by and large I thought it worked. The whole Gorn arc was all right but has wondered when they might address her heritage full on. And interesting to finally, openly address the timeline of the eugenics wars; basically pulling a Terminator and waving it away as something being pushed back by temporal agents. About as neat a way to address it really. Could have done without the one person she connects with being Kirk - that was a wee bit too on the nose.

And if I could demand one thing of TV production, it's that if you don't have the budget to make a car chase work - don't. Never once convincing, then the script lampshaded the fact it proved totally pointless.

Evade

I quite liked this episode even if it was a little slow. I remember complaining when Picard season two was out that it's too easy to have them prevent a disaster to fix the future but having to ensure WWIII or a similar dark chapter of history happens would be a better story and we kind of got that here.

New Kirk is fine just not as Kirk. Maybe if we get a scene if him and that sparkly eye 60s lighting the used to do he'd seem more Kirk-like

The temporal investigations agent wasn't called Tedgogt or some anagram thereof was she?

I hope they get back to full crew adventures next week. Or maybe Bradward will show up

pjcb

is this episodes entirely designed for product placement?

she left the gun on the desk

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797537#Comment_120797537

I suppose one point of order is that this Kirk wasn't "our" Kirk; can't remember how it stacked up against his prior appearances (was that also in an alternate timeline? Can't remember if he appeared outside the Balance of Terror redo). Some of his performance seemed to have a sense of wonder at a world he never knew. By all accounts though, his is the most thankless role in some respects.

Funny cos I recall a bit of grumbling that the "I'm from space" line suggested a goof of continuity - when it was actually perfectly accurate. I also liked that they didn't go with another Evil Federation alternate; it seemed more akin to Yesterday's Enterprise and a well meaning ship fighting a rearguard.

Couple of things the episode tied up, even if I'd prefer they just keep in universe timeline.

They show that events had been delayed, since 1992.

References temporal factions so, while I never loved the temporal cold war, it does give an out for that time period being in flux. They should have referenced sanctuary cities as Sisko/Bell riots could still occur.

If they HAVE to change the in-universe history then better this than just say they got the Eugenic Wars date wrong, due to WW3. Makes no sense given Pucard et al were talking to Cochrane and Lilly.

Also cleans up Voyager's own temporal snafu, when never mentioning Eugenic Wars in 1990s time travel episode

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797811#Comment_120797811

I made a joke about it being unwatchable because of "I'm from space" but SNW has earned the benefit of the doubt by now.

corkie

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-snw-season-2-christina-chong-interview/

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/christina-chong-inverse-interview-strange-new-worlds-season-2

Very attractive women in this IRL photo?

I've heard rumblings about this mysterious episode 9 in season 2. And I'm hearing that the idea came from you. Can you tease that a little bit?

So she pitched the idea for an episode?

pixelburp

I've never put pictures side by side but it's always weird how Singh reminds me so much of Drummer from Expanse; similar angry disposition lol, the actors look to same to me; heck even the same heavy eye shadow lol. Drummer was about 5 levels more permanently angry - but I just can't shake that sense of deja vu.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120800982#Comment_120800982

Very similar in appearance, posture and mentality (obviously I don't expect Starfleet officers to space people)

Sleepy

It was fine, most importantly for me, and unlike the bottle episodes in Discovery (or to an extent some of the holodeck nonsense on Voyager) it still felt like Trek.

Bobtheman

I liked it. The guy doing Kirk is fine. Sure Chris did a better job but it's a hard act to follow William Shatner

He does remind me of Jim Carey a bit. A toned down Jim Carey

I'm still adjusting to the light again after Picard. It's all good

corkie

https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2023/07/04/tomorrow-tomorrow-tomorrow-sets-strange-new-worlds-bar-high/

Although I enjoyed the episode, only time will tell, if above comparisons hold up?

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815653#Comment_120815653

I find that article a pretty odd take on the episode... the performances are quite strong - particularly La'an - but the plot itself is suuuper shonky, and fairly thoughtlessly thrown together. In a way it's a decent episode in spite of itself as a bit of a character study, but for something to be classed as "packing an intellectual punch" it would surely need the actual story to be a lot more thoughtful and tightly written than this was. It's not the worst episode, but it's firmly mid/lower-tier for me anyway.

Sad Professor

One thing in this episode really annoyed me: the characterisation of young Khan as a sweet, innocent little kid. I get that the "kill Hitler as a baby" plot depends on him being "just a boy" but it just didn't seem to match with his character at all. Who started the trend of characterising future villains this way anyway? Was it Lucas? I went to school with plenty of disturbed children who were well on their way to becoming psychos and scumbags from a young age. I also think La'an sparing him would have been more interesting if he was already showing signs of a future tyrant.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825525#Comment_120825525

The sympathetic or tragic villain isn't new but it's been really over done in the last decade. There's nothing more refreshing than a story with a villain that's just evil, without a hint of grey to be found.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825525#Comment_120825525

Perhaps; though she did leave a gun Behind ... so maybe she was the instigator of Khan's path to evil in the first place? That she's the cause of her own legacy lol

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120826639#Comment_120826639

Khan was a bit grey from the start. Kirk describes him in "Space seed" as the most benevolent of the Eugenics War tyrants who didn't reign over massacres. He let him go to Ceti Alpha V rather than a penal colony as he saw some good in him. Not such a nice guy in "Wrath of Khan" though they did give him a good reason for being pissed. If anything, SNW probably overdid it a bit describing his legacy as "worse than Hitler".

corkie

@Stark SNW probably overdid it a bit describing his legacy as "worse than Hitler".

Did I miss this somewhere, when did they actually do that on screen?

I know the episode was pitched as such, and media have played on it.

Star Trek Strange New Worlds' Time Travel Story Almost Happened 57 Years Ago

Strange New Worlds provides a Star Trek twist on the well-worn killing Hitler time travel dilemma, but TOS once attempted to tell that story.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120827535#Comment_120827535

So he's the Mussolini of the Eugenics War's Axis?

DoctorEdgeWild

Been away so just caught up on this episode:

Do not like time travel episodes.

Do not like really glaring and obvious inconsistencies.

Do not like 'Let's put Kirk in a Mustang'

...but La'an and the actor playing her, fantastic. Great character, brilliantly played, developed, well rounded, has motivation and reason. Enjoyed the episode despite the silly bits, they were easy enough to shake off.

SNW is still light years ahead of everything since VOY in my opinion.