Working extra hours as a manager

Lisn

I got promoted at the start of the year and now manage a team. Since being promoted I've consistently worked at the very least one extra hour a day. I'm paid a yearly salary not hourly but my contract states my hours and says I should be flexible. Which I am I literally have not had a weekend off since November and I work any 5 days in 7.

I noticed my boss amended my roster and I'm working extra hours one day to cover for short staff. This has happened to the night manager and he always get ls the hour back. But when I asked why wasn't given my hour back my other manager laughed and told me to be more flexible that as a manager I should expect overtime (unpaid)

I have shown that I'm flexible, and I already feel like they take advantage of me as I have recently had to do a 12hour shift with no break because I had holiday days and no other manager did the reviews while I was gone. It was the end of the month and if the reviews are not done we basically fail our monthly targets. I was asked not to leave until they were done and unfortunately that was 12 hours (unpaid overtime again)

I honestly feel like my boss is taking the piss and made me look like I'm not flexible.

Am I in the wrong? Should a manager expect unpaid overtime?

Pawwed Rig

Depends what industry you are in. In mine there is an expectation of extra hours that isn't there in other sectors. There is also the question of reward for these hours. You might not get paid for them but by doing them are there future prospects for increased salaries/bonuses?

If they are seen as a minimum expectation with no future reward then I wouldn't be doing them but if it is recognised and will be rewarded later then I would.

Others will come on saying they wont work a minute without pay. This is fine as they may have a job rather than a career but is this the case with you?

The reality in Ireland is that if you want to become a high earner you need to work bloody hard and sacrifice a lot of personal time

TLDR - largely sector driven.

screamer

Yes, I’m very sorry to say that as you climb the ladder, more is expected for not much more pay. The clock watchers tend to never seem promotion because they don’t want any more responsibility, regardless of pay. If you allow them to walk on you though, they will continue to do so. I understand that there may be time sensitive things you have do, I’d also start keeping a track of the hours you are working over and above every week and I’d bring that to every single review meeting.

blackbox

It is my view that as a manager, you should be prepared to work extra hours from time to time as situations arise.

However, if you have to do it all the time, the business is understaffed (or someone isn't doing their share).

McGrath5

You are subsidizing your employers stinginess by having to work for free because they won't resource the business properly. I've seen it time and again, the promise of a future bonus or promotion that never happens. OP, the company won't change, life is too short for that kind of nonsense, you should move on to somewhere that treats you with respect and dignity.

thefa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752436#Comment_120752436

Bang on for my job too.

@Lisn I believe that additional hours in salaried jobs are common but you described a case where a manager was given time back in lieu whereas you weren’t. Did you challenge back based on this info?

I would think you have grounds for complaints also if some of the other things you describe like no weekends off are not being applied to other managers in similar roles.

Was there an element of inexperience/disorganization when it came to the 12 hour additional shift for the reviews as in maybe you were swamped and left it to the last minute before holidays?

I get the feeling that you could be able to put your foot down more in certain situations rather than being fobbed off in the name of flexibility.

Mrs OBumble

You're a manager. It's up to you to maintain staffing levels and delegate work in such a way you don't have to do overtime.

If you don't have the freedom to do that, then you're really only a team leader.

DownByTheGarden

In a company i used to work at people used to get paid overtime and there was a lot of it.

If the overtime for a person was becoming more than a certain amount the would promote them to manager.

Now they were stilldoing the same work but not getting paid overtime for it.

A few years of them hanging on being promised more promotions etc and they would realize that all this was was a money saving tactic and they would leave. Person on the next highest overtime bill would be promoted and a new victim would be brought in.

So if you think a promotion is actually making your job/reward worse just look for a new job. The longer you put up with it the worse it will get.

Lisn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120753234#Comment_120753234

It's just me who works weekends

I'm always on top of reviews, they were at 100% before I left, that's why it was so annoying to come back and see nobody did any of them while I was gone. I had 4 days off and we were exactly 4days behind.

When I spoke to my manager about it I was told to do them while on holiday so they don't build up.

My gut tells me I'm being taken advantage of and to stand up for myself but I don't want to be seen as not a team player or not flexible and I actually need my job

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058302036/working-extra-hours-as-a-manager

Your superior is piss poor and the situation will not improve by the sounds of it.

Some folks accept crap work situations like that, most look for something else.

There are other options out there. Up to you to assess the situation and make the best decision for yourself

Alkers

What industry are you in?

We are at pretty much full employment so if you're not happy in your current role should definitely explore other options.

It's not.immediately clear from your post but why are you doing all the reviews, that sound like should be shared amongst all the other managers? This sounds like the main issue to me?

As a manager, you should definitely expect to work extra hours as and when needs dictate. I mean, if there are end of month / year deadlines of deliverables, it would be expected that you step up to ensure delivery. However, it shouldn't be expected that you always work extra hours in order to fufill your regular duties, if that's the case you need to address this.

I also noted that you failed to take your breaks, these are a legal right and as s manager you should be ensuring that junior staff take their entitled breaks and set an example by taking yours also

Quitelife

If you ever leave your job will they get someone else who is prepared to do some hours for no pay ? Doing unpaid hours is only camoflaguing the reality of the hours needed to do the job.

These days people are more interested in work life balance than killing themselves for companies. Working long hours has health impacts

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752436#Comment_120752436

After 35 years spend working for US and European financial institutions during which I held various management and consulting roles, I'd say it very much depends on how you decide to you want to be treated. If you are the one willing to do limitless hours of overtime, they'll take advantage of you. If you just take time off after doing overtime, nobody will say a word - flexibility works both ways. And if you can't be relied on to but in the hours when they screw up, they'll find a work around - a couple of 'Sure I'll look at that first thing tomorrow' and they'll get message.

As for hard work equals promotion and high earnings - not really, being a good political player or having something that will cause them pain if you are not around will get you much further! And in any case if you are a hard worker, then the last thing they want to do in loose out on it by promoting you!

It's up to you to decide what kind of work live balance you want, especially with Ireland so close to full employment.

thefa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120754953#Comment_120754953

So your manager is telling you to do part of your work while on holidays too.

Yes, based on the examples it looks like your nature is being taken advantage of. I presume it’s not what you signed up for given you’re on here.

I wouldn’t be as concerned with not being seen as a team player/flexible if your colleagues get away without doing it. They didn’t even touch the reviews when you were out.

It doesn’t sound sustainable and probably won’t improve by itself so might be best to have a difficult conversation sooner than later.

Flinty997

These are not extra hours they are unpaid hours. If you aren't getting rewarded for them.

Unpaid hours are worth 0.

NewbridgeIR

Was the increase in salary significant i.e. does it make up for having to do the extra work?

For internal promotions, you are better off if you get an agreement from your employer to defer your (often fairly minimal) salary increase for six months on the basis that it can be negotiated upwards (have a figure in your mind that you'll accept) based on how you perform.

backwards_man

Without knowing your industry or the size of the team you manage its difficult to answer. Most manager roles require some level of overtime at some point in the month or qtr or whatever time periods important in your industry but there is generally a flipside that once month end or qtr end is over you take hour foot off the pedal for the following few weeks and ramp up again later in the period. If you are not getting down time in between these ramp ups you will get burntout. Its up to you to say No when asked to perduce something at during these downtime periods, eg I will come back to you in a few days on that; definitely I will get that done but for now I am concentrating on X etc.... there are ways of saying No without saying No.

The other thing that jumps out is that you have to do monthly reviews. How many staff are you doing this for every month? I have worked in departments that produce monthly peformance scorecards but it is largely automated pulling data from one system into a spreadhseet that has macros which essentially does all the work and it took a few hours to complete, back in the day. There shouod be some sort of backup process agreed with your piers or you second in command that when you are off they do this work. Its on them if they dont. Dont take the fall for them not doing their side of the arrangement.

Sounds like you need to step up and delegate, make arrsngements for backups, push back on people taking advantage and generally set some boundaries. Dont be a yes man to peers.

spaceHopper

You Boss is taking the p1ss, keep a diary, use email or text where possible with them and don't ask assume they you get the time back and take it. If you're asked to be flexible, tell them you haven't had a weekend of in over 7 months and you are taking a the next two off you have things coming up. If asked what they are say family events you can't change. Look for a new job.

lisasimpson

What does your employee handbook say in relation to overtime hours and weekend work. Sounds like your manager has no management skills and isnt capable of covering for you when you take time off. Keep a record of hours and the times you have spoken to your manager. If you got knocked down by a bus in the morning someone would have to cover.

With your records as backup and getting nowhere with your manager it sounds like its time to take it higher. Either to HR or whoever your manager reports into. There is an employee welfare issue here at the end of the day. Its not as if your refusing to do any overtime its just a fair share of it.

If your an honest employee its probably not in your nature to do this if the company pay sick pay go on stress leave for 2 months. Your manager cant hide their incompetence then and reporting will need to be done. Use that time to look for another job