"Experienced" drivers lacking knowledge or rules of the road

deravarra

First off, I would never suggest that I am the best or most perfect driver, and I have had a share of times where I made a wrong judgement call. I always hold my hand up, and would be open to correction if my driving faults were pointed out to me.

Lately, I have noticed that quite a lot of people do not know how to use a roundabout.

Prime example this morning was a four exit roundabout, coming up the Dublin Road beside the Park Hotel in Mullingar. There was a car stopped ahead of me, and the car was on the right hand side of the road. I went to the left of the car, as the rules of the road suggest.

"If you’re following the road ahead, (2nd exit), you would normally position towards the left, or stay in the left-hand lane, however you need to be guided by road signs/markings. You would have no signal on approach, however when you reach the centre point of the 1st exit, you would signal left, to let other traffic know that you are leaving at the next exit."

and

"If you’re taking the road leading to the right, (3rd exit), you would normally position just left of the centre line, or select the right-hand lane, however you need to be guided by road signs/markings. You would signal right on approach, however when you reach the centre point of the 2nd exit, you would signal left, to let other traffic know that you are leaving at the next exit."

When moving off from the roundabout, I maintained lane discipline and exited at 12 o'clock from ingress. I noted that the car which was to my right made their egress from the roundabout at the same exit.

I parked up at a local supermarket where the owner of the car which had been on the right hand side of the roundabout approached my car, and said that I had made a dangerous manouevre, overtaking them on the roundabout. I asked him what lane he was in, and what lane I was in, and he remonstrated that those in the left lane should only turn left, which was incorrect - as there is no road signage or markings to show this, nor are there road markings or signage to show that those on the right lane are allowed go straight ahead.

I was willing to discuss the rules of the road, and also allow them to point out where, if I was, wrong. Unfortunately, no such discussion was had.

If circumstances were different and this gentleman had approached another individual in the same manner they approached me, things could have been so much different. I was more pre-occupied with thoughts of whether or not we'd have rain today, and whether my planned barbequeue could go ahead.

Vizzy

What makes you think that he was an "experienced" driver.

Maybe he only passed his test last week.

I agree,though, that a lot of people have no clue in relation to negotiating a 3 exit( or more) roundabout

deravarra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721807#Comment_120721807

He did mention that he was a more experienced driver than I was, with over 40 years of driving experience...

liamog

Was it one of those terrible Irish roundabout designs that have 2 lanes in and 1 lane out on every exit. I find them to be an absolute menace thanks to how badly the average driver takes roundabouts.

deravarra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721933#Comment_120721933

Yes it was!

I was on the left - he was on the right.

Thankfully for him, I was in a good mood.

Alun

I only see one lane on that approach, not two?

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722153#Comment_120722153

Where are the two lanes?

sonar44

300bhp. Left or right, I'm always in the right lane.

deravarra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722283#Comment_120722283

not marked lanes - but everyone goes to either the left hand side or the ride hand side of the yield.

deravarra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722191#Comment_120722191

not all roads outside dublin have clearly marked lanes.

https://www.aviva.ie/blog/driving/how-to-use-roundabouts/

Aviva recognise this too :)

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722859#Comment_120722859

So nobody is following the rules of the road.

deravarra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722955#Comment_120722955

i followed the rules of the road.

brokenbad

Most common issue i see on the road these days is people not using their indicators - not just at roundabouts but at junctions too....

Alun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722963#Comment_120722963

The actual, real rules of the road, not the interpretation of them on the Aviva website which appears to be where you got your quoted text from, make no mention of forming extra lanes on the approach to roundabouts where there aren't any. What "everyone" does isn't important here.

Anyway, IMO what you did was bit of a dodgy thing to do on a small roundabout like that, and utterly pointless too. OK, on a much larger roundabout, with marked lanes on the entry, and marked lanes around the roundabout itself, yes, but not in this case.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722963#Comment_120722963

From what I can make out, you overtook, on the left, in a lane that doesn't exist, a car that was ahead of you approaching the roundabout and cut that car off exiting the roundabout.

Everyone else being wrong doesn't make you right. As the road is marked, there is only one lane on that approach to the roundabout.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721873#Comment_120721873

40 years driving but never did a test i'd say. Loads of them around.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722998#Comment_120722998

I once saw a taxi driver indicating believe it or not.

deravarra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723017#Comment_120723017

What he would have done to go straight was ignore lane discipline on the roundabout.

Hows about that?

Alun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723228#Comment_120723228

I don't really understand what you're trying to say there. He was positioned to the right of the road at the entrance of the roundabout. So what? He wasn't indicating to take the 3rd exit, so your assumption should be that he's going straight on, as were you. Maybe he had a different set of unwritten rules that "everyone" using that roundabout knows about and that many people keep to the left to turn left as he said, maybe when it's really busy, I don't know.

Lane discipline only comes into the equation when there are lanes, there aren't any, you just made them up.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723196#Comment_120723196

If it was his middle finger then that wasn't an indicator ;)

sonar44

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723172#Comment_120723172

My interpretation too. Extremely dangerous to cut up on the inside after failing to exit on the first exit. No reason not to back off either and let the other guy exit ahead if it looked like there might be an issue. And I don't care what the rules of the road say. My rule is left hand side for the first exit or roll the dice. I'm not in the business of counting exits or working out which exit is the 'through road' at speed. We're not out there on our own. We can all show a little mercy.

deravarra

Spoke to a guard who told me I was in the right.

Looks like a lot of those giving advice or admonition have points on their licence

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120722998#Comment_120722998

100% Or assuming your intent. The amount of people I have up my ass at speed at some roundabouts due to having to yield fully and sometimes stop due to clowns not indicating ... Sorry I have decided id like to not flip a coin on life today folks.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723479#Comment_120723479

You were doing well till the second half of your post, left lane if marked on approach is left or straight on. If you use the right lane for going straight there are certain descriptions for your behaviour which can't be used here.

Apart from that given there were no lanes on the roundabout in question it would seem that the other driver was leaving room for cars which were turning left only. This was wrong, what he should have done was move to the left to allow cars that were turning right to move alongside instead.

deravarra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723172#Comment_120723172

I did not "overtake". I was side by side with the car, yielding to traffic coming from the right of the roundabout. Once that passed, be both took off. I was on the left, and they were furthest to the right.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725135#Comment_120725135

Which car exited the roundabout first, yours or the other car?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725164#Comment_120725164

What does it matter, the OP has already explained that the other driver told the OP that they'd moved to the right to allow cars to move up on their left to turn left only. They were wrong to do this.

Charles Babbage

It is obvious that people in general should do a rules of the road test when renewing a licence every 10 years.

However, those who design Irish roads should be tested too, some of the designs are well below par.

for instance, on roundabouts at dumbbell junctions on roundabouts, when you approach there are two half lanes, but there is no turning right, and so all traffic should use the left lane, unless doing a U turn. But there are no markings to contrary, what is that about?

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724522#Comment_120724522

Depending on how you explained the situation, the guard may have thought that there are 2 lanes at approach while only one yield triangle on the road clearly indicates this is only one lane. It doesn't make you right creating the second lane. You simply took the car in front of you over. It was impolite and possibly irresponsible.

I'd agree with you only if there were 2 lanes on approach.

Another thing is that guard may not be a road policing guard and may not know the rules better than the others. Or didn't bother to care about the situation. Or simply thinks they know, but the knowledge is incorrect. Guard's advise when it's asked informally is irrelevant. Please don't create extra lanes. It's rude and impolite. If you do so, pay attention to the car drivers' in front of you and beside you intensions.

AndrewJRenko

I had a Barton’s Coach driver tell me this week that it was ok that he stopped his coach slap bang on a pedestrian crossing because “read the rules of the road, I had committed to the green light “.

The idea of not committing to a green light when there is clearly no room for him to clear the crossing never entered his tiny mind.

Professional driver, who presumably attends his mandatory CPC training every five years.

Dose.

DaveyDave

There's a new trend of people indicating left when approaching a roundabout but going straight so you're about to pull out but have to stop because they're actually going straight. Or people indicating right, but going straight and indicate as they're coming off. **** morons. People are also using the right lane approaching two lane roundabouts to go straight when they're marked right only because they think the left lane is exit 1 only. Really don't know where these shocking roundabout habits have come from.

My missus passed her test a few months ago, new drivers are being taught a new habit of hugging the left/right side of the lane if making a turn at a junction which encourages other motorists to pull up alongside you when there's only one lane. It also blocks cyclists. Zero reason for anyone to not just be in the centre of the lane regardless, it's not like you're making space for someone to pass you...