General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

8-10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122252032#Comment_122252032

Always loved looking at the Turkish league too and being surprised at who's still playing. Guess it's the Saudi League for that now!

One player from La Liga I was surprised to see hasn't retired yet is Pepe Reina who is actively looking for a new club. Some people with rose tinted glasses saying he should be picked up for Liverpool this season.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him come back to England again. I still remember seeing his first game at Anfield, in the 2001 UEFA Cup Semi Final! He was playing for Barcelona as a teenager with the likes of Pep Guardiola, Luis Enrique and Frank de Boer playing that night too - all of whom have been managers for years while he's still playing, 11 appearances this past season and 32 the season before for a top 5 league club isn't bad 23 years later

doc_17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122250030#Comment_122250030

He got Spurs to the CL Final. Conte nor Mourinho managed that. I’d have taken Pochettino at Liverpool ahead of Slot. Maybe they are waiting on Southgate.
No Brighton appointment yet either.

NITRO95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122252767#Comment_122252767

Southgate was never in the running according to Talk of the Devils, The Athlethic podcast. Tuchel and De Zerbi got as far as talking financial packages with INEOS so I'd expect that if ETH goes at some point this season either of those guys will be next up. An interesting theory they threw out is that INEOS met with McKenna and all parties agreed now wasn't the right time but he's very much the long term plan. So if ETH gets another two or three years and McKenna is ready then they'd be happy with that. Some people won't like that and will **** on the idea that Utd are now putting in place succession planning but I'd be mightily impressed if INEOS are already looking that far ahead.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122253022#Comment_122253022

I'm a subscriber to the Athletic but it's getting worse and worse. When my subscription ends next year I'm not renewing. I wouldn't put any faith in anything they write anymore. Lots of amateur writers there now, it's like they were trying to cut costs or something. The research isn't anywhere near what it was a couple of years ago.

I have no faith in anything they write anymore and opinion pieces are just awful these days.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122252767#Comment_122252767

Jose won the CL with Porto and inter. Nevermind his PL titles.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254050#Comment_122254050

isn’t that entirely the point? That even serial winners won nothing at Spurs? And that Poch even did better with that team than these other great managers, so maybe writing him off as a loser based on his time there is a bit unfair?

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254250#Comment_122254250

Is it unfair?

His Spurs team lost a title race to Leicester city when Spurs were near their peak.

His PSG team lost a title race to Lille.

He seems like he can build a good team over time but so far he hasn't really shown himself to be the man to then lead those sides to titles.

His only trophies won were at PSG as far as I know and winning at PSG is a given. But he even underachieved there.

7/8 seasons in England and he's had some very nice squads in that time and didn't pick up so much as a league cup.

adaminho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254367#Comment_122254367

He took over PSG halfway through the season and ended up with a 1 point difference from when he took over! In other news Terzic has left Dortmund so maybe heading to Chelsea.

8-10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254406#Comment_122254406

Maresca gone already?

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254406#Comment_122254406

He took over PSG when they were a point behind Lille at the midway point of the season.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a top level manager at PSG to overturn a 1 point difference with half a season to go

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/24/paris-saint-germain-psg-thomas-tuchel-mauricio-pochettino

" Tuchel has paid the price for a slow start in Ligue 1, where PSG have four defeats in their first 17 games and are a point behind Lyon and Lille."

pjohnson

Couldn't understand why Villa would sell Duran when they only have Watkins but apparently some weird clause means they've automatically re-signed Cameron Archer after Sheffield United went down.

Bounty Hunter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254562#Comment_122254562

would not be surprised if we sell archer again too. Duran has huge potential but is seemingly agitating for a move and villa can get a very healthy profit for a player who didn’t start for us and ease our psr concerns in one go.

no doubt if both are moved on Villa will be looking at the CF market once the June 30th deadline has passed. I’m hoping for someone like Jonathan David (moving into his final year and essentially up for sale as a result at Lille) myself.

doc_17

Villa really need to keep as many of their first 15 as possible from last season, otherwise they could do a Newcastle.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254367#Comment_122254367

Yup, definitely unfair. The only team he's done less than very good at is PSG, which is about as unsuitable a club as one could imagine for a manager like him. He's a builder, and a guy who gets guys pulling together for a greater whole - PSG at that stage was galacticos-central. Still did fine, got his league (winning by 15 points) and cup there, so I'd forgive him for that bit of a blip in his first few months there (i'll forgive absolutely any manager not hitting the ground running in their first half-season, especially arriving into a club mid-season).

And that Leicester season isn't much of a stick to beat him with - he was only in a title race because other teams were rubbish, but Spurs got basically exactly the number of points you'd have expected, with a 5 point improvement on the previous season finishing with 69 points. Not really his fault that 69 points actually put him reasonably close to a title. And that was only his second season there, well short of the peak they went onto.

The following season they finished with a frankly incredible 86 points - that was their peak. To have achieved a points total like that with as little resources as he had was fantastic.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254802#Comment_122254802

It's not that Poch doesn't have certain skills. He does. I just don't think he has that top level ability to win trophies. He's been a manager for over a decade and the only club he's picked up silverware at is a club that would have won those trophies with or without him.

I don't want to rehash the same stuff again but it isn't a small sample size.

That Southampton team were good - maybe could have won a league cup etc.. But won't hold that against him.
That Spurs team were good enough to win something but didn't. It was a time where other big clubs were going through transitions as well so can't blame it on the all-conquering Man City. I don't think it's crazy to suggest they could have won an FA cup, League cup or Europa League in his 5 seasons.
He under-delivered at PSG. PSG have won 10 out of the last 12 league titles. 1 of those seasons they failed came under Poch. It's not a good look.
Won nothing again at Chelsea - although the squad was a bit of a mess.

Maybe at his next club he will find an environment that best suits him but he did also accept the PSG and Chelsea jobs knowing full well how those clubs were run.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122255344#Comment_122255344

I think it's important to match the expectation with the achievement… like, had he been at United, or Liverpool, or Arsenal for years and didn't win a trophy, fair enough. But he wasn't. Sure, there was a possibility he could win something, and got close, but there wasn't an expectation that he would. Getting 86 points and a Champions League Final with an outsider team is really impressive. He's come closer to breaking Spurs into the top tier than any other manager in decades. And since Pep came to England 8 years ago, only 3 managers have ever finished above him - Klopp, Conte, and Pochettino.

And sure, not winning a French league in a season he arrived halfway during is a bit disappointing… but he did actually only arrive halfway through. Not sure it's all that fair to blame the fella who came in after someone else was sacked. In reality it takes any manager a bit of time to figure out their squad, get to know the lay of the land etc - putting the expectation to succeed arriving cold in mid-season, no prep, no preseason, no time, is unfair imo. When given the full season - as is more reasonable to base success on - he won the league comfortably.

And imo getting that rabble at Chelsea into the shape to finish the season with 5 months of top-4 form was a terrific job too. Clear obvious work vastly improving what was there. It's that sort of turnaround that would make me fear United if he went there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254250#Comment_122254250

No because he won nothing with Chelsea either. I didn't hear much clamour of him instead of this Arnie fella

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122255659#Comment_122255659

He was still at Chelsea when Liverpool had a deal done with Slott. Given their form in the last few months I'd imagine most people thought he was safe for another year.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122255659#Comment_122255659

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'd have been fine if he had been announced as new Liverpool boss (though of course no-one saw him leaving Chelsea given the vast improvement there under him since Christmas, but I guess maybe we should've figured Chelsea might Chelsea themselves).

rob316

I like poch, did well at spurs, kept them very competitive, hasn't found the right club since. Not winning something in the klopp and pep era in no argument against him. I suppose losing a league to Leicester is a black mark. Wouldn't have had a problem him coming to Liverpool.

doc_17

he might end up at Liverpool yet as I’m not sure Slot is the man there.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122255840#Comment_122255840

I have this vague sense that Slot is seen as a bit of a lower-risk shot to nothing - does a lot of things quite like Klopp, similar personality, likes similar players, uses a similar style, so if they can keep the good times rolling without major upheavel or rebuilding then it's all good. If it doesn't work, then they can take the bigger risk of someone who will need more new signings and system changes, like going for Alonso next season for instance.

IrishOwl...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122255863#Comment_122255863

I just can't see how Slot works out. The guy could indeed be a great manager, but I think Liverpool will have a hard time convincing the likes of Alision, Trent, McAllister etc to get behind the project. The guys that signed because off, and that want to work with the best in the business like Klopp maybe looking elsewhere as soon as things goes sour. Salah will most likely be off next summer anyways and not sure what contract VVD will be offered. Interesting times ahead for them.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122256000#Comment_122256000

We'll have to see - though I think it helps that Liverpool have wholly revamped the behind-the-scenes positions with highly rated staff, along with getting back Edwards and Ward. With the talent and strong age profile in the squad, and this rebuilt club structure, it's quite an exciting project - so as much as there's this feeling of an 'end' with Klopp, there's also the excitement of a promising beginning. Think it'll start with new contracts for Trent and VVD right away anyway, locking them in for another few years - and hopefully Mo too, but that one is probably a bit trickier.

TitianGerm

Anyone see the details coming out around the Crystal Palace main shirt sponsor? Basically looks like a fake company but the they've used the image of a dead tictoker as the supposed CEO.

IrishOwl...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122256076#Comment_122256076

I actually think that Trent contract is crucial for them. Top class young player just coming into his peak years. If there's any signs of him not committing or stalls on the contract, it could spell bad news for Slot.

8-10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254406#Comment_122254406

Ex-Liverpool midfielder Nuri Şahin is the new Dortmund manager

eagle eye

I'm with the guys saying he hasn't won anything. Great at putting a squad together but I just think he is too nice of a guy and doesn't have the ruthlessness in him to get a team over the line.

I like him, like the style of football his teams play but he's just not a winner. He's just too nice of a guy.

~Rebel~

I guess I just don't really understand the difference between the ruthlessness to win a semi final from a few goals down, and the ruthlessness to win the final. Or the ruthlessness to get 86 points in a year when someone else got a bit more, versus in a year when someone else didn't get a bit more.

If Kane puts away a few chances in the league cup final back in 2015 and Spurs win the league cup, does that inherently mean Poch was actually ruthless all along? I dunno… I think managers are more responsible for the hard yards, building teams and getting them into positions to win things or bash out decent league points totals - ultimately (short of some overt tactical mistake) it's players on the day that win or lose finals.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122257483#Comment_122257483

If players don't perform, and I'm talking about more than one, then that's on the manager. He's not just responsible for putting out good formations and tactics.