General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

Talisman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159525#Comment_122159525

Their form over the final 10 games of the season (13 points from 30) suggests that Villa were fortunate to get over the line. Tottenham suffered a collapse during the run-in and only finished 2 points behind Villa. Chelsea (21/30) and Newcastle (20/30) were eating up the ground behind them both.

68 points is the lowest points total to qualify for the Champions League in some time, pre-covid it would have meant a 5th/6th place finish at best. This season, Villa were fortunate that Tottenham were unable to replace Kane, Newcastle were devestated by injuries and Chelsea went on a crazy shopping spree last year. It's unlikely that the challenge of qualifying for the Champions League will be easier next season.

IrishOwl...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159202#Comment_122159202

Everyone I know of thinks of City as cheats, but I've never heard anyone claim the cheating is down to their players taking peds. Regardless of the morals of the Lance comparisons. That's a bit of ridiculous thing to say if you ask me.

IrishOwl...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160232#Comment_122160232

That's quite a mad stat TBF….

DvB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160232#Comment_122160232

Was impressed with them yesterday v Arsenal. Thought Dyche had them set up well & posed plenty of problems on the counter attack. Were never going to go toe-to-toe with Arsenal at their own game so thought Dyche was clever in his tactical approach.

ronjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160232#Comment_122160232

Since 29th October Everton actually have 1 more point than Spurs

y0ssar1an22

city didnt win the CL this season. i'd say they buy 3 75-100m players in the summer, win the PL comfortably and will be in the mixer for another treble.

i cant see arsenal keeping pace next season. while city will improve their squad arsenal will be trying to improve their first 11. they were relatively injury free all season which prob wont happen next season.

liverpool should be able to secure top 4 also. their team is just very good. the only thing that derails them next season will still be mourning the loss of klopp.

if ETH is to believed, injuries cost them this season. without those, they should also be expecting top 4.

i reckon chelsea will also be in the mixer for top 4. their end of season form is excellent but i thank palmer has a big drop off next season.

i see villa and newcastle falling away, and i reckon ange's honeymoon will come to a grinding halt.

Talisman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160036#Comment_122160036

Man City consistently pick up 25+ points in the final 10 games of the season. To have a realistic chance of beating them to the league title a team needs to be near perfect. Klopp's Liverpool stumbled in each head to head title challenges, so they found another way.

They changed the pre-season in 2019 so that the players were near peak fitness for the beginning of the season, three months earlier than usual. Instead of improving fitness as the season progressed, the team was a juggernaut from the start. Winning the first 8 games was crucial because it meant a change of dynamic when playing Man City who were already 8 points behind. Failing to close the gap was a psychological blow to the City players.

In the summer of 2022, De Bruyne said in an interview that they had given up any hope of winning the league that season by game #19, Liverpool were on 55 points, 16 ahead of Man City. That's when Guardiola's Man City usually kick on and drive for the title in the second half of the season. To be at their best they need a team to go head to head with. In the second half of the season, Liverpool got 44 points, while Man City got 43. Only in Guardiola's first season as manager did Man City pick up fewer points in the second half of a season.

Arteta's Arsenal pushed then to getting 51 points in the second half of this season, Liverpool had pushed them to 54 points in 2018/19.

Klopp provided a template for getting the better of Man City, Arteta will have to make a change instead of just emulating them.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160487#Comment_122160487

the more i think about it the more i lean towards no.

the team is shocking and looking at the stats, it aint due to the injuries. united have played maybe 3 good games all season. dismal. maybe even since last april have only played 3 good games.

so many players need to be moved on so that may save him.

it'll depend on the ambitions of the owners. for example, if i was them i would approach ancelotti even if only a 1% of getting him.

Patrick Mahomes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159541#Comment_122159541

Villa owners are the 3rd richest in the league and they aren’t afraid to spend I doubt they are worried about holding onto there players. They have champions league football now and have plenty of money to spend.

Regards,

P.

Fitz*

ETH really needs to improve Man Utd's attack, drastically, if he does stay.

Man Utd were the lowest scorers in the top half this season, with 57, and they only scored 1 goal extra last season so the attack really isn't firing. They are the 8th highest scorers over the last 2 seasons combined, just ahead of Brentford.

Man Utd had their injury problems this season, certainly in defence, but the attack (Rashford, Bruno, Garnacho, Hojlund, Antony) were all largely fit for the season and in the squad nearly every week.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-city-premier-league-financial-charges-investigation-b2547620.html

Delaney not shirking the elephant in the room

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160843#Comment_122160843

sad stuff really. the below was said 4 years ago. do the PL really want to see justice, or give us that illusion?

It was as long ago as 2021 that the most senior judge in the UK, Lord Justice Males, said: “This is an investigation which commenced in December 2018. It is surprising and a matter of legitimate public concern that so little progress has been made after two and a half years during which, it may be noted, the club has twice been crowned Premier League champions.”

IrishOwl...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161043#Comment_122161043

I think they're going to have address it as this is having a knock on effect on the value of their product. I've said it before but I've never had as little interest in a team as this Man City team, I don't hate them, I certainly don't like them, they're just a bit meh, even the brand of football they play is boring.

And this is not born out of a jealously/rivalry thing. I don't follow any Premier League club so I couldn't care less about any of that. I just find it hard to take anything this City team does seriously, as there's so much smoke and mirrors around them. When Arsenal and Liverpool both lost on the same weekend a month or so ago I zoned out of my interest in the title race, as we all knew who was going to win it then. I actually think City will stroll to the 5 in a row next season too.

Mitch Connor

I jsut can't see a way this case ends in anything other than a basic victory for City. If they are found guilty, anything short of having their titles stripped and massive fincial penalties (That should then factor into any version of PSR/FFP) just won't cut it. Everton were docked points for breaching and being truthful about it. Breaching the rules by lying and cheating is another level entirely.

But with the UAE involved at a state level, discussing the issue in secret talks with the UK government… what hope can anyone have? The govenment and opposition have also evaded questions on whether foreign policy could influence the 'independent' regulator. So… All hail City, i guess.

chopperbyrne

For football fans this should be a celebration of one of the greatest teams in history, but instead it's a list of competitions won with a huge asterisk beside each one.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161610#Comment_122161610

The problem with that is when City are on ten titles in a row and the Premier League has been completely devalued by their dominance and the conduct that led to it.

City got off on a technicality with UEFA, without which they would have been serving a two year ban from the champions league, the financial penalties will never hurt them of course.

Lose this case and the Premier League becomes a lame duck, it's already a one horse race every season, the only interest coming in the form of who makes up the other three of the top four.

I'd say that the Premier League would have let the whole thing slide if the utter dominance of City wasn't already apparent by the time they made the case public. Since the charges were made City have just gone on to steam roll everyone even more than they already were doing.

Having the Premier League become an English Ligue 1 is in nobody's best interest. The very idea that Manchester City are now the most financially successful football club in the world stinks to high heaven as well. Everything about City is rotten. Of course they protest their innocence, we're talking about people who've never not gotten away with things in their life, I do share your pessimism though, bad guys always tend to win, this time football as a concept is on the line, so no pressure.

IncognitoMan

Think everyone is just sick of it at this stage.

To go back to the Lance Armstrong comparison it would be like Lance racing in 5/6 tour de Frances afterwards where everyone knows he's juiced and him winning each one.

Even City fans are losing the will to fight. 1 post in the City thread yesterday when they made history by winning 4 in a row. It's poor.

Looking at the Sky Sports YouTube channel
City winning the title and first ever 4 in a row - 612k views currently.
Man Utd win 2-0 away at Brighton with nothing on the line - 717k views
(Highlights have 1.3M views on Utd's YouTube channel as well)

It just shows that City can't generate the interest. Those numbers would be through the roof if it was Utd, Pool or Arsenal that had won the league yesterday. They wouldn't be lower than an end of season dead game highlights from Utd.

But… hey Sponsors are falling over themselves to sponsor this City team because that is obviously the best way to promote your business/brand 🤣

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161780#Comment_122161780

I am waiting for someone to turn up because you mentioned LA again :)

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161799#Comment_122161799

Yes but I hear it comes with a free hotel stay for the entire team when they are playing at Stamford bridge......B&B with one evening meal😋

Fitz*

I think Pep Guadiola must be a secret Boards reader, as he even made reference to Lance Armstrong after the game yesterday.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161780#Comment_122161780

Obviously more people are going to score stuff about Arsenal, Liverpool a d particularly United as they are bigger clubs than City. I don't think you'll get an argument from anybody about that.

As regards sponsorship, having your brand advertised by a team that's competitive and winning titles is the dream.

I'd still believe that having anything advertised by United, Real Madrid or Barcelona is bigger though.

McFly85

There’s just nothing interesting for non-City fans about City.

The football they play isn’t that interesting as its central focus is to reduce risk and strangle the opposition. There’s moments of brilliance of course but over 90 minutes it’s not engaging.

From a management perspective it’s the same. They never have to make-do with a bad signing, Pep is never going to be told no, we can’t sign new players. Adapting is spending as much as is required until success is achieved.

Add to that, the 115 charges that City have spent years dragging out by appealing everything possible, it’s no wonder the wider public are ambivalent. They know how much is being spent so it’s no wonder they’re winning, it’s expected when they’re outspending the rest of the league.

There is simply no story to celebrate.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162325#Comment_122162325

And yet I'm sure you'd agree that having your sponsorship tied to a club with such huge publicly and officially made charges of cheating and corruption would normally be a major PR issue, and signal a downturn in sponsorship value. Not here though. Odd, eh?

ctrl-alt-delete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122161695#Comment_122161695

Maybe they should start putting those above the crest on their shirt like other clubs and countries do with stars.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162466#Comment_122162466

The only people talking about this stuff is football fans online, both here and the UK. The rest of the world doesn't give a continental about it. How many of us were up in arms about what went on in Italy with Juventus? Or any other controversy anywhere else?

The English media aren't talking about it and you can be sure there's no one thinking of it in France, Italy, Spain or anywhere else.

So a worldwide sponsor has no issue sponsoring City.

DvB

If they do get caught & are punished for it those same brands will desert them in the exact same way all of Lance Armstrong's sponsors disassociated themselves with the negative publicity surrounding a proven cheat.

Thats a pretty monumantal if though. I have zero faith in them ever really getting their just desserts.

El Gato De Negocios

If city are found guilty it won't matter a fig to their sponsors as most of them are UAE connected.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162814#Comment_122162814

Have you seen who their sponsors are?

DvB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162896#Comment_122162896

I should have expanded to refer to the legit sponsors, not the book cooking ones.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162625#Comment_122162625

The degree to which you're downplaying this is a bit mad. The media are not talking about the 115 as much as we'd like - but it's still talked about enough that anyone following football to any degree is aware of it. It was being talked about on peak drive-time national radio just today sure. It's been talked about on every single football podcast, on the likes of Neville/Carra/Wright/Keane's Stick to Football show, and everything in between. There isn't a single sports news outlet that hasn't covered it to one degree or another. We'd all love it to be shouted from the rooftops week in week out, which it's not, but to suggest that there isn't broad awareness of the cheating charges is wrong. And of course for those who are not at all aware of football, a Man City sponsorship connection doesn't carry any value.

The Juventus example is one that I think backs up this point in my favor too - you don't even have to be a follower of a league, or to specifically follow a story, to be aware of the 'stink of cheating' through being generally aware of broad football news. Sure just yesterday you were arguing that even the hint of a comparison of something was enough for it to stick and cause damage.

Any sponsorship negotiations that didn't fight for a lower cost by bringing up the 115 as a mitigating factor would be idiotic. Because obviously sponsors generally look for value. But instead we've seen the rates rise and rise and rise. Once again, odd, eh?