General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026665#Comment_122026665

I've seen nothing in Manioo's game since he broke into the 1st team at UTD to suggest he wouldn't be ready.

He came on for England a few weeks ago and looked very comfortable. One of their better players actually and looked to give them better balance in their midfield straight away.

It's simple for me - they have no outstanding options in his position in the team. They can shoehorn a player into that role (Bellingham) or they can play a poorer player in that position because he has more experience (Gallagher). Or they can play the best option (Mainoo).

eagle eye

Palmer might score a lot of penalties but he's regularly one of the best on the field for Chelsea, even when he doesn't get a goal or assist he's regularly involved in goals.

He deserves all the plaudits he's getting. I think him Foden and Bellingham should be the England starters behind Kane. I'm a huge Saka fan but he's behind Palmer right now in my opinion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026920#Comment_122026920

He's part of a Manchester United midfield that doesn't seem to exist when they don't have possession so that would have to be a worry to any coach.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027034#Comment_122027034

Hes been very good at United and his performance for England was outstanding. There is no worries about him. I predict he'll be the starter beside Rice.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026920#Comment_122026920

It's not shoehorning someone in who's played there the majority of his career. Bellingham has been doing great things as the main central attacking threat but the idea that he and another attack minded player (think Maddison would suit this too) couldn't play either side of Rice is a bit reductive.

These guys are miles above Mainoo who has been as likely to set up an opposition goal as one for his own team in recent weeks and struggles to keep up with the pace of the game at the moment. Great on the ball, yes, but a lot of developing to do.

al87987

Not sure on Mainoo, he looks like he's got great quality on the ball but he's only started about 20 games in midfield and every team in the league have strolled through the United midfield untouched in that time so not sure how much protection he offers the back 4.

El Gato De Negocios

Mainoo is in no way ready for a starting place in the England set up and from a purely selfish United supporter perspective, I hope he doesn't feature at all for them.

IrishOwl...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027136#Comment_122027136

Agreed, the potential maybe there, but he is far to inexperienced, to date he has shown some promise in his 20 odd appearances in a very less than convincing UTD midfield. We had the same claims of greatness from some Liverpool fans last season with Bajectic when their midfield was a shambles. Both players could turn out to be exceptional and future world stars, but the bottom line, these guys are far too young.

Also from a UTD point of view, this tournament is most likely going to be another train wreck under Southgate and the last thing you want, is your young promising midfielder to be a target of the hate mob on the back of it.

~Rebel~

Ward-Prowse seems the obvious experienced head beside Rice.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027059#Comment_122027059

You can't talk about a wide open midfield and then suggest Rice, Maddison and Bellingham.

It would be very England like to take a player who's been one of the best attacking midfielders in the world this season and ask him to play deeper alright.

Bellingham is now a 10. An attacking player. That's where he's played the vast majority of this season and that's where he's been at his best.

If England are serious about winning a tournament then they need to focus the team on their better players and not try to fit in names. Surely this is a lesson well learnt at this stage

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027663#Comment_122027663

Than they should be pairing JWP or someone of that ilk with Rice. He's a good experienced player who's a very good midfield player and has a wand of a foot.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027397#Comment_122027397

I'd definitely be playing Mainoo over Ward-Prowse anyway

The only setup I could really see making sense and not playing Mainoo is having Stones play more like his City position where he pushes into midfield and Rice moves slightly further to link.

Mimic the Stones Rodri setup with Stones and Rice but then again I'm not sure Southgate is the man to do this

~Rebel~

Mainoo is clearly a gifted midfielder, but he's just so young, so I'd worry about him a bit structurally in a team where that position is very important to the defensive shape. Would have no worries for him on the ball, but out of possession, he's not exactly gotten to get much good experience working in a properly functioning midfield on the defensive side. It's a lot of pressure on the lad.

Ward-Prowse has the experience and discipline where you know what you're going to get out of possession, and is still a plenty good footballer. Stones is a great shout, though their defence might become a bit weaker without him if Southgate sticks with his other faves there like Maguire over more mobile lads like Tomori, Colwill etc.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027680#Comment_122027680

Southgate hasn't seemed keen on JWP. But with Phillips playing himself out of the tournament Southgate will have to bite his tongue and bring someone else.

TitianGerm

Here's a comparison matrix of the players mentioned above and how their stats compare together.

That's Arsenal's Rice above but if you ask Rice to do a job like his West Ham days and be more defensively minded it's more interesting.

So in this one I've put Rice in his West Ham defensive mold, Bellingham in his Dortmund all rounder 8 role and Maddison in his 10 role to attack but also as someone who likes to press hard and try win possession early.

I'd also think with Kane, Foden, Saka etc you aren't as reliant on Bellingham for goals so you don't "need" him to be in the box as much.

theoneeyedman

Jude Bellingham.... England.... WTF lads!

Is there not a dedicated Ingerland thread somewhere for this kinda talk????

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027850#Comment_122027850

Surely going into a tournament you'd want to play players in roles they have mostly played this season and not something they haven't been doing for 12+ months

You want to capitalize on their form as you are really only looking at a 4/5 week period. International sides don't have 5-10 games to play themselves into form or a team shape.

They mostly need to keep it simple and get the best players into their best positions. Supplementing them with complimentary players.

It's a very different situation to club football due to the limited time

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027930#Comment_122027930

You don't want to be picking lads who've had a handful of good games either though. Mainoo is a good player and has a high ceiling but he's not ready for a starting spot in the Euros yet.

The midfield I listed above with Rice, Bellingham and Maddison is the best they can put out at the minute. Will Southgate pick it? I doubt it. He'll probably have Henderson or Phillips in there.

pavb2

Dortmund winning at half time . . . that 5th CL spot could slip away this week.

golfball37

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028036#Comment_122028036

West Ham will do Spurs a favour and beat a hungover Leverkusen 3-0 tomorrow.

golfball37

England reached the last Euro final with Calvin Phillips starting in midfield. Mainoo is more than good enough ffs

Ah so Mainoo hype is certainly off the rails

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028262#Comment_122028262

Kalvin Phillips 3 years ago was a very decent player.

Necro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026533#Comment_122026533

Exactly, people are talking like Bellingham is some sort of slouch in front of goals himself, he has 30 combined goals and assists for a Madrid team who look to be about to win La Liga. Palmer is a fantastic option for England but from the bench. I'd say Ward Prowse should also be an option for that second midfield spot but Southgate seems to hate him for some unknown reason.

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027874#Comment_122027874

Open your other eye there, would ya? 90% of the football comments in Soccer on boards, are about the English leagues. If you have an issue with supporting an English club, but having to curl up into a ball because the English national side is referenced, well, hmmm. Naturally, I don't support England, but I feel they are just a Gareth Southgate away from winning the Euros this summer. If you feel this warrants a separate thread, launch one, but I can see how people would mention it in here.

Talisman

If Arsenal lose to Bayern tonight, the additional Champions League spot for next season won't be going to the Premier League. Dortmund winning last night moved the Bundesliga into second spot in the rankings.

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/028a-1a386150ed4b-322dff667686-1000--2024-25-uefa-champions-league-who-is-in-the-european-perfo/https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/028a-1a386150ed4b-322dff667686-1000--2024-25-uefa-champions-league-who-is-in-the-european-perfo/

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028977#Comment_122028977

How is it calculated?

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027976#Comment_122027976

He's playing week in and week out at a higher standard in the PL and standing out. I think we are vastly over estimating international football at this stage..

Rice, Bellingham and Maddison midfield is moving Bellingham back deeper and is not using him in the position which he has excelled at this season. You are moving potentially the best attacking midfielder / 10 in the world on form to accommodate Maddison. Why?

If England don't want to throw Mainoo in then they still need to fill that position with a player who can complement Rice and Bellingham. Not changing those 2 around to accommodate a lesser player.

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028036#Comment_122028036

Be no harm.
Utd are well off the pace now anyway. Dortmund currently 5th in Germany - think I'd rather see them in the CL than Spurs

IncognitoMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027810#Comment_122027810

If we are honest JWP is fairly average in general play. He's a set piece machine but in open play he isn't a standout player.

You'd bring him and play him later on in games that are tight for the chance of a free-kick. He'd also be a handy option to throw on in extra-time if game is heading towards Pens.