Brexit - Creeping in. Are we going to be Gaslit like the Brits?

Larbre34

The Unionists are no friend of a united Ireland and it's time to stop pretending that they will ever be or could ever be.

And so, reunification is a majority decision, plain and simple. And of course EU membership also enjoys strong support in the six counties, so it is hardly likely that it will need to be compromised to achieve a saleable deal on unity.

On the contrary, it will be a whacking great attraction to most northern voters.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715336#Comment_120715336

Standard put down from those hiding from a subject that they'd prefer not be discussed. Heard regularly these days from the 'great & good', rubbishing ordinary peoples growing reservations over our changing society.

looksee

Can we have some links to 'ordinary people' having reservations? Are you suggesting that I am one of the 'great and good'? What qualifies me for that?

I am quite happy for you to discuss the subject, but it needs some coherent and at least half reasonable points to argue.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715687#Comment_120715687

That makes no sense. What's heard regularly from whom? What reservations are growing and how do you gauge that they are growing?

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714283#Comment_120714283

Those were no "credible" reasons...

On the first (immigration, border control), I expect that if the politicians don't really wish to control immigration leaving the EU would not help. It hasn't "helped" the UK. Non EU immigration to Ireland is entirely under the govt.'s control (added edit: with admitted exception of extraordinary circumstances of invasion of Ukraine) and if desired even the EU immigration could probably be monitored more if govt. created a national ID system like most other countries in Europe have.

The second is even dodgier. On improving relationship with the UK, the relationship we have were we outside the EU is going to revert to what it was pre EU, a minor body captured by and facing a giant planet, or if you want to be rude an economic and political vassal. It was not a healthy relationship then, repeating the same thing again and expecting it to turn out differently is stupid.

Even now within the EU there is a "pull" on us exerted by the UK that constrains decisions regarding EU integration now they have left, the issues over the border and NI protocol, the fact we can't ever join Schengen, the fact that we can't (or won't?) take part in some developing legal harmonisation efforts in the EU (like European Prosecutor's Office) I am guessing, because of our "Common Law" heritage and links to the UK that would be damaged.

joe40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120711981#Comment_120711981

Nonsense. How did Brexit work out for the Brits in terms of immigration. Higher now than ever.

Ireland leaving the EU makes has no pros only cons.

nachouser

Blue passports might be more sartorially handy. I don't often wear purple so it would make a better look in my pocket square when travelling.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120714298#Comment_120714298

You don't know what "contradicting" means. Which explains a few things actually.

Brussels Sprout

I'm reluctant to post in such a nonsense thread but:

• The EU has consistently had extremely high favorability ratings in this country - some of the highest in the EU
• Brexit has been a disaster for the UK with no benefits whatsoever. They've driven an economic and social wedge between themselves and their neighbours with no sign of any trade deals with the likes of the USA. Even by the metrics of what it was really about - reducing migration, it's been an utter failure. Migration has only grown with huge numbers of non-EU migrants more than replacing lower EU migration. I'm sure those people who voted to "take back control" weren't voting to simply replace EU migrants with non-EU migrants but that's exactly what they've gotten.
• The Irexit/NP crowd are a bunch of barely disguised racists, xenophobes and facists who have been trying to import US-style culture war politics to this country. If they actually managed to run candidates who didn't come across like sex-pests and weirdos they might actually be dangerous.

So no. It's not a thing. Stop trying to even pretend it's a thing.

flexcon

Well as the OP, I apologies to the vast majority of the participants in this thread!

At least I got some sane perspective from it! I think I would need to be on my A game to participate in here! :)

Hermy

You don't need an A game to participate.

I've had L-plates on my back since I became a regular visitor to the forum during the Brexit wars and I get on okay.

What you do need though is to put a bit of effort into presenting your argument and that usually means backing it up with some reliable source material.

And if you don't do that it's likely that your arguement will be pulled assunder by the regulars.

flexcon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717135#Comment_120717135

All good. It's not easy to turn off my lazy twitter brain. I shall return with some better energy to debate on the next thread :)

Montage of Feck

We are near full employment but with high inflation people are too busy trying to make ends meet to be getting into bed with crackpots.

But just yesterday I see Tara mines is shutting due to the cost of doing business here, more of that and the already seething resentment could lead to trouble.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717519#Comment_120717519

There may be trouble, and frankly there should be trouble.

But that trouble absolutely will not take the form of something so incredibly stupid as leaving the EU.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120716760#Comment_120716760

Well you asked the question - did you not expect people to respond?

For clarity, I'm generally in favour of our membership of the EU and have voted accordingly in any associated referendums in last 20-30 years.

But I'm not obtuse or thick headed enough to see that there aren't some downsides and that things have shifted a bit too since Brexit.

Any who thinks all in hunky dory in the garden is deluding themselves. Despite our love/hate relationship with our near neighbours, we do share a lot in common with them in all manner of ways. If sufficient UK voters were minded to vote to leave the EU, I have little doubt but that there would be a healthy enough vote here too for same.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717714#Comment_120717714

So, your argument is that because UK voted to leave then there automatically is a majority in Ireland for the same?

If sufficient UK voters were minded to vote to leave the EU, I have little doubt but that there would be a healthy enough vote here too for same.

A "healthy enough vote" but the main political party has campaign material explicitly saying that they're not Nazis. Can you name a mainstream Irish party that supports leaving?

I'd also be keen to hear more about the alleged downsides of EU membership. You say that they exist but do not elaborate at all.

yagan

I always wondered who buys the Daily Express you'd see on the newsagent racks in Ireland. Only once did I see someone reading it and it turned out they were British living in Ireland and from what I could hear from their attempts to strike up conversation they were very much blaming the EU for whatever ache they were feeling that day.

Britain is stuck marching forward to the past, there's no glorious past for us to be nostalgic about.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717723#Comment_120717723

Are you just argumentative for the sake of it? Do you live in Ireland? Talk to ordinary people here?

Since Tara Mines was mentioned above, it's not that many years since every farmer round here had a field of sugar beet growing and the roads were busy each autumn with tractor loads of beet going into the sugar factory. An industry that many benefited from, a good valuable crop, closed as it was agreed to produce elsewhere and import.

But that's a while ago, there's many a way membership of the EU benefits and ways it which it has negatively impacted. Just stating that EU membership is brilliant and should not be questioned, is just that - a convenient assumption.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120718166#Comment_120718166

So, nothing but a snarky comment then.

I grew up on a farm so I don't believe this stuff about beets for a second. I never knew anyone growing them.

Since you've concluded your post with a bit of gaslighting, I don't think you're going to convince many here.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120718237#Comment_120718237

The case that you never knew anyone growing sugar beet hardly proves anything does it. You see I give you an instance of where membership of the EU has damaged a sector and some peoples incomes and you dismiss it. How about the fishing industry so?? Greatly disadvantaged by EU membership and obliged to accept massive factory trawlers from Spain and Portugal etc in our fishing waters.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120718704#Comment_120718704

You didn't. You dumped an unfounded allegation here with no evidence whatsoever. It's not on me to make your argument for you. Either provide proof or it can be dismissed as nonsense. Same for the fishing industry. Provide proof that the EU adversely affects Irish fishing and that Irexit would benefit it.

I'm trying to ask for evidence less but since you had to resort to gaslighting above, I'm going for it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717714#Comment_120717714

But I'm not obtuse or thick headed enough to see that there aren't some downsides and that things have shifted a bit too since Brexit.

Opinion polls have shifted towards maintaining EU membership since Brexit.

Ahwell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120711981#Comment_120711981

The flow of asylum seekers is already stemming itself. There has been a significant fall in the numbers arriving here since the beginning of February. The surge caused by the Covid related travel restrictions being lifted has passed. We are returning to normal numbers, which has nearly always been well below the EU average.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120711981#Comment_120711981

Christ…..

We have obligations to refugees as signatories to the 1951 UN Refugee Convention. Both predating and irrespective of EU membership.

If this is the level of shyte the debate would come down to…

Sam Russell

The closure of the sugar beet industry was because the Irish Sugar Company accepted huge EU compensation to shut up shop.

Sleepy

We've spent the last few years laughing at / pitying the Brits. We're not about to repeat their self harm.

nachouser

From a quick look at the 'oul google, approx 40% of our imports and exports are with the EU. I mean, any argument for an Irexit of any sort falls on it's arse there alone.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120718753#Comment_120718753

Christ on a bike! You're on a politics forum, are you hopelessly out of touch with Ireland now and matters that have been thrashed to death over the last couple of decades and more. Maybe living in the UK is grand but shields you from current affairs? This issue of difficulties facing the fishing industry here due to EU fishing quotas and agreements is common knowledge. You could pick from thousands of articles on it over the years: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/one-in-five-fishermen-will-be-forced-to-quit-without-eu-policy-change-fishing-boss-1.4686025

I've stated that I'm generally in favour of EU membership but that their are downsides - you asked for examples. I've given you two random ones that popped into my head and you declaim them and look for proof. Go search.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120719682#Comment_120719682

More snide comments and then you expect me to research your argument for you. I'm not wasting any more time on this drivel.

nachouser

40%. Explain that away. Good luck. You're just trolling.