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Trying to Convince Myself an EV is Right

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭coolbeans




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    I like to say you are completely wrong but I've never owned an EV so in my case ignorance is bliss.

    I just think at that price point they are very good value and I couldn't justify spending 35k + on a 2nd hand EV.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    No bother at all, best of luck no matter what you do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,606 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Not being able to justify, and not having the beans. EVs are not for everybody right now we know, but let's not pretend it's about charging.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,450 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Hi OP- I think you’re probably over thinking it a little but your post was informative.

    If going for a new EV I think looking for a more recent model than an ID3 is probably a good call - also, who said you had to “justify” it- you’ve done all the head work, now do a bit of heart work- whatever new car you’ll buy, you’ll likely love it, take care of it and enjoy it.

    Most car purchases except recent times where supply issues drove up prices are money down the drain- so at least go down the drain in style😛

    I think you should just buy a new EV- but not an ID3.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭terrarev


    I'm in a similar boat to the OP in that I'd like an EV, I'd have no real concerns about range etc. for my useage, I'd just have concerns about the longetivty of them because things are evolving so fast.

    The way it's worked in our house for our last few cars is to buy new every 5 or so years with the car becoming the "second" car in the house after 5 years and moving on the 10 year old car.

    I'm not sure this would work with an EV, especially at the bottom end where there is unlikely to be any value left in a 10year old car.

    I'd have reservations around Tesla as well, while their cars look good value at the moment, what is the service and maintenance going to be like out of warranty?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭User1998


    Why wouldn’t there be any value left in a 10 year old car? Do you think a 2013 EV is worthless?

    A 10 year old Tesla is still worth €30,000. And a 10 year old E-Golf is still worth €15,000



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,606 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    If anything there would be more value in a 10yr old EV than its ICE equivalent. Does the prospect of very cheap motoring and more pleasant driving experience not continue to have a value beyond a PCP term? 😄



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,165 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    This is exactly the point. I'm driving an 11 year old Fluence EV at the moment. It's a big comfortable family saloon. Well equipped e.g. automatic, dual zone climate, sat nav. But the huge plus is how cheap it is to run. A recent trip to the airport cost me €2 (€1 tolls and €1 electricity) against my ICE which would have cost €14 (€4 tolls and €10 petrol). Anyone doing a typical 50km commute around the M50 could save two to three grand a year. Then throw in €120 a year tax and the fact that there's far less to go wrong than in an 11 year old diesel. It's a no-brainer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    For the use case you describe your Fluence or an equivalent early Leaf is certainly cheap motoring. It’s limitations however mean it’s not for everyone. If your flight was diverted to another Airport, you’d have had to get the Bus. Ideal 2nd car in a household though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,106 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Surely that's only an issue with the return flight, and in that case you're equally screwed with an ICE

    If you land in Shannon and your car is in Dublin Airport then it doesn't make any difference what's powering it

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭loopymum


    The fluence doesnt have any dc charging does it?

    Personally I would find that too limiting even as a second car but I live in the country.

    One my kids passed their driving test so will be in my old leaf, they will only need to fast charge occasionally but it should be interesting



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,165 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    Yes, there is no fast charging so you do have the very real limitation of 60-80 km followed by 2-3 hours of ac charging. However a recent report in the Irish Times made the case that as a second car cost over 10k a year to run people could save a fortune by ditching the second car. The cheap EV option is an even better alternative as it not only gives you a second car so you can nip down to Woodies while the OH is visiting the In-laws but you also get much cheaper motoring for most of your journeys. The cheap EV isn't the second car, it's the primary one used for commuting, picking up kids, going to the shops, etc., with the expensive to run ICE reserved for the holidays, weekends away and what not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    My point is if you’re collecting or dropping say a relative to Dublin Airport and their flight gets diverted to Cork or Shannon, a Fluence or a Leaf would be as useful as a chocolate teapot. As a cheap runaround it’s ideal but be aware of its limitations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,165 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    In the case you mention you just take the other car. The cheap limited range EV is to provide very low cost daily motoring. The other car is for the infrequent long trips.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,106 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Personally I'd probably tell them to get the bus 😂

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,229 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    I don't know of a single person who has ever had a flight diverted from Dublin and my family, myself included, would always get lifts to the airport from each other. That's more "what if" than people saying you might need to drive a van when you get an automatic license (I've also never needed to drive a van on my automatic license).



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,030 ✭✭✭Casati


    Better example might be you bring junior to a match 50km away and are confident you have power to get there and back. Junior breaks his arm during the match and now you have to make a journey unplanned to a hospital 60km away - but you'll have to also plan in a stop en-route to charge. Another example is you drive the 250km to your holiday home in the countryside, arriving with almost no range and an 8 hour home charge to get back to full range. You get a call saying the alarm has gone off in your house - suspected break-in etc, and you need to head home asap.

    You might be the person that doesn't have family relying on you and similar issues might not impact you personally, but most people could see how situations like this can pop up from time to time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,106 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Or maybe a massive solar flare knocks out the entire electricity grid and you need to wait until they fix that before you can public charge again

    We can keep coming up with ever more ridiculous scenarios to thread the needle of situations where a shortish range EV with some battery degradation will struggle

    Or we can go back to the point that if the poster with the Fluence (and most people who have a short range EV as their second car) would use the long range ICE car (or EV) if there was any doubt about whether it would cover the journey, including some buffer for anything that comes up

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,204 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Can I only thank this post once?

    A car like an 11 year old Fluence Z.E. with no fast charging can only ever be a second car. For people who will only ever need it to do a very limited range. Just like about the majority of 2 car families 😂

    Super comfy car, well specced and not very fast - ideal as a learner's car (given that soon enough all cars will be automatic and it matters no longer if your kids have learnt to drive in an automatic). It and the Leaf are probably the cheapest total cost of ownership cars you can get (presuming it doesn't have battery lease, or you buy it out)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,277 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    This



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,106 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I should probably have added that I was terrible at taking my own advice since I often drive the Leaf when the Citroen would have been more suitable

    The Leaf does have fast charging so in theory it can be used for long journeys (with a lot of patience). And in my defense, the Citroen would probably have blown it's engine after w hours of motorway driving, so was probably even less suitable for long journeys 😂

    Also, I would have had to relearn how a manual gearbox works, ugh...

    I absolutely think cars like the Leaf and Fluence EV are going to be the learner cars of the future. Cheap to buy, cheap to run and should be cheap to ensure as well as being easy to drive and get your licence on

    On the topic of automatics, VW were recently saying they'll have to dump the manual Polo soon because it'll never be compliant to Euro 7 standards. As well as every hybrid being an automatic, and most small cars being hybrids at the moment, the days of having to learn a manual gearbox are soon going to be gone

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭GTE


    Well, things changed since I started the thread.

    I got an ID Buzz Max!

    My first 240km, over four hours with an average speed of 61kph had me at 19.6 kWh/100. 32% battery left from 100%. All N and M roads, 80 and 100kph cruise control. Air conditioning on the whole time too.

    There is method to the madness on why I went for the Buzz, which makes the higher cost worth the investment.

    Thanks for your help all. How things change!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭User1998


    How come you got an ID Buzz? Congrats on the purchase



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,229 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    GTE is about to learn the wonders and convenience of a sliding van door!



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,254 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    OP is going to sleep in it, cheap housing😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭GTE


    The door open and close buttons have my fulfilling my childhood bus driver fantasies. I just need to make sure I don't relive them too much and pull up at a bus eireann stop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Glad you put away the spreadsheet and just went for what you wanted. Would love an ID Buzz for all the people seats, but it's just too rich for me.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,204 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Well wear, cool car!

    Those efficiency figures are awful. But as I have been a bit of a lone wolf on this - not really all that relevant if you have an EV that you mostly charge at home from cheap night rate or free from PV. 70-90% cheaper than a diesel. The purchasing price would have made me cry though. As my daughters say: I'm not gonna lie 😂



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭GTE


    32kWh in 24 minutes at Ionity. 100kW sustained, and 80kW average.

    I'm happy with that as it was more an experiment given I went in with 40ish % and only a five minute drive from "cold" since I live close.

    I'd hardly finished my selection of pastries by the time it finished at 80%.

    That'll do for me nicely.



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