How Can I Shame My Company More Now That I've Beat Them Via the WRC?

Rosalinda Eyes

So I recently took a case against my former employer to the WRC due to underpayment and won. At the hearing they begged me to settle after having ignored me for months. I have left that company now but have recently had a chat with one of the employees who's still with them. He told me that, having read my case, that he asked for the same requests (with reference to me) as me and was politely told to **** off.

I hoped that once I'd won that all the other employees at my location would kick up and that they'd easily get the same remuneration that I was granted in their payslips from now on. It seems they don't have the courage or the intelligence. Ironically a good few of them were joined a union, and I wasn't! I thought there'd be some sort of a consequence to being publicly named and shamed. The only other thing is that the case is a tiny bit complicated to understand. It's not something that you'd grasp in if you heard it as a headline while driving your car. So my question is, what can I do to draw more attention to this? 

In spite of the fact that I won, the case is framed in such a way as if to imply that I lost. I challenged them on a few other things that I wasn't sure whether I was right or wrong about... taking the view that I might as well make cases about such issues while I was already reporting my main issue. I lost those cases, and in the summary of the published report, those are the ones that are mentioned first. Only down the very bottom does it mention that two issues where they underpaid me.

They were ordered to pay me within 40 days of the published report, and ended up taking 45 days. What I was paid was then taxed, which wouldn't have been taxed if I'd got it first day.

mrslancaster

Your former colleagues should get their union on the case if they are still being underpaid. Have you moved on to a new job?

Furze99

Don't be fighting other peoples battles. Move on.

Jim2007

You won your battle and it is in the past, so move on, let the others look fight for their own rights.

Next time around you won't have the benefit of labour law and the WRC.... The law of defamation is a very different animal and if you give them a chance you can fully expect they will come after you.

CreadanLady

It is only defamation if he makes baseless or untrue statements.

He could take out giant billboard ads pillorying the company in relation to the cases that he won, if he wanted to. Legally.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058299434/how-can-i-shame-my-company-more-now-that-ive-beat-them-via-the-wrc

They were ordered to pay me within 40 days of the published report, and ended up taking 45 days. What I was paid was then taxed, which wouldn't have been taxed if I'd got it first day.

Tax is annual. You can ask Revenue for a balancing statement after the end of the tax year and if you've overpaid, Revenue will give you a refund.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120682670#Comment_120682670

Would be an idea to update your knowledge then....

Quitelife

Talking of WRC & Workers conditions - Wonder how all those minimum wage workers flown in from the poorest parts of Eastern Europe are getting on in Keelings fruit picking operation these days

Rosalinda Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120682655#Comment_120682655

Where's the fun in that? That seems a very condescending and closed minded and condescending attitude you have. You're acting like you're an expert but you seem like you just want to shut down any discussion or thought process here.

I've no doubt you would've told me that I wouldn't have had a hope when I was deciding to take this crowd to the WRC first day!

Rosalinda Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120682599#Comment_120682599

Well of course they should... duh! No I'm not working there any more as I've already said in the first post. Sorry, don't mean to be cheeky, it's just funny when people don't read the post!

bucketybuck

Nobody else gives a toss about your old company or what they did, so the idea that you are going to shame them is rather naive. You can preach to the high heavens and nobody will really care all that much.

But its your time to waste.

Rosalinda Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683244#Comment_120683244

I don't know about that. They paid an IBEQ solicitor a good deal of money in order to make a case against me, and had a good few managers take the time and travel expenses to attend that WRC hearing. They later even tried to appeal it. They definitely didn't want anything getting out about it.

Victor

The risk is that it will come back to bite you.

You have won. Move on.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683618#Comment_120683618

If they didn't want the publicity, they would have settled out of court with an NDA.

In a time of full employment, your ex-colleagues are choosing to stay. If it was that bad,they would have left. That alone tells us there's more going on than you are saying.

Enjoy your money, move on with your career.

Rosalinda Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683689#Comment_120683689

I never said it was that bad working there. It wasn't a huge amount of money they were embezzling from me either. It just annoyed me that they wouldn't do things the correct way, considering they're a global company with a HR department. Those employees were always giving out about the job by the way. How does the fact that they've stayed there prove that there's more going on than what I'm saying?? Seriously, don't be shy in answering that! Unless you're implying that they singled me out and chose to not pay me properly, and that all the others were/are getting paid properly? But no, that's not happening... the same equivalent that happened to me is happening to all the rest of them in that company.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683618#Comment_120683618

They probably don't, but that wasn't my point.

My point was that nobody outside of you and them cares, so trying to draw more attention to it is just wasted effort. And your original question was how to draw more attention to it.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683844#Comment_120683844

Ah, it's Mrs OBumble - she always takes the employers' side in every debate, never the employee. Employers are beneficial feudal lords, dispensing largesse to us peasants. Employees are cheating scammers who will be given an inch but take a mile. This holds true even though she's been made redundant multiple times.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683100#Comment_120683100

Can you expand on this a bit? I would have thought that an undistorted statement of fact would by definition, not be defamation.

nachouser

Nothing good will come of it. Move on. Good luck.

Purple Mountain

Pick your battles, don't be fighting anyone else's.

You've had your day in court, got the outcome you were after.

Move on.

AnRothar

. I challenged them on a few other things that I wasn't sure whether I was right or wrong about... taking the view that I might as well make cases about such issues while I was already reporting my main issue. I lost those cases, and in the summary of the published report, those are the ones that are mentioned first. Only down the very bottom does it mention that two issues where they underpaid me.

You appear to have taken a case on several grounds.

You won some and lost others.

Can you post a link to the judgement?

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683844#Comment_120683844

But its none of your business what others are being paid unless you are their union rep and then maybe you could approach the company or do something about it. Otherwise it is their battle to fight.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683618#Comment_120683618

The determinations of the WRC are public record and available online so anyone can see the details of your case and the company information.

Did you get a reference when you left the company? If you are still looking for a new job, maybe think about that.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683844#Comment_120683844

Because actions speak louder than words. They aren't leaving, and they aren't taking cases. That means that must be happy with the overall compensation they're getting for the job, even though technically something isn't being calculated correctly and they're getting a little less than they should.

I have no idea how your colleagues are being paid (and in fairness, neither do you).

Ireland is really a very small village, and you would do well to consider what happens the next time you apply for a job and the employer googles you. (Because they really will, if you're a serious candidate for the job.) You took a WRC case, won some and lost some - probably won't be held against you. You waged a battle with the company, trying to shame them for something - could have rather different effects.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684326#Comment_120684326

Just for the record, I've been made redundant exactly once. I've worked multiple short-term / fixed term contracts because they suited my career or personal needs - or were all that was available. So I've been in plenty of jobs that ended. Also plenty of workplaces and lots roles (worker, manager, union rep). I learned from an experienced union staffer that sometimes telling people to pull the head in and play a long game is the best you can do.

3DataModem

"I challenged them on a few other things that I wasn't sure whether I was right or wrong about."

I'd consider whether I'd want to be drawing attention to this to future employers. A shopping list of complaints with a couple upheld suggests an axe to grind. I think the advice just to move on is good advice. It's a small world, and most industries use "informal" reference networks. It doesn't matter that you were morally right or technically right or whatever.

"I hoped that once I'd won that all the other employees at my location would kick up and that they'd easily get the same remuneration that I was granted in their payslips from now on."

How much money are we talking about per person? A few hundred a year? A few thousand? A few hundred thousand? Just curious.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684712#Comment_120684712

Fair enough, I stand corrected. Your seeming total opposition to WFH seems at odds with that, but ok.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683202#Comment_120683202

It's not about fun and it does not matter to me in the slightest what effort you put into publicising the matter, it is after all your money you will be spending on the matter!

All I did was point out to you that there is a very big difference between winning a case under labour laws where the odds are right stacked in your favour and a case of defamation when the injured party can clearly demonstrate that you deliberately set out with the intention of causing serious financial damage their reputation. You have made some statements that simply are not true and some that are questionable at best and having to defend them in a court of law would be very challenging for any legal team, you'd have to finance.

Rosalinda Eyes

@Mrs OBumble They aren't leaving, and they aren't taking cases. That means that must be happy with the overall compensation they're getting for the job, even though technically something isn't being calculated correctly and they're getting a little less than they should. I have no idea how your colleagues are being paid (and in fairness, neither do you).

You're contradicting yourself here. You're agreeing with me that they're getting a little less than what they should, but then you're saying that I have no idea what they're actually getting paid. Well I do... I worked there. Most of us were on the same rate! We spoke about it believe it or not!

Why have they stayed there? Because not everyone is a brain surgeon or rocket scientist... they can't just up and leave because they don't like the job. Who knows why they stayed there, although some of them have since left... as happens in any company over time. Maybe they stayed because of the travel distance, due to indecisiveness, or maybe because over all it's not that bad a job. Or maybe because some of them wouldn't have a good enough education or good enough English to understand that they're being underpaid... which you don't seem to have considered as a possibility. Believe it or not, most people take the view that no job is perfect, and need something to pay the bills.

@Mrs OBumble Ireland is really a very small village, and you would do well to consider what happens the next time you apply for a job and the employer googles you. (Because they really will, if you're a serious candidate for the job.) You took a WRC case, won some and lost some - probably won't be held against you. You waged a battle with the company, trying to shame them for something - could have rather different effects.

Ireland's a small village? That's interesting. I just googled my name, along with the employer's name, as well as 'WRC', and nothing shows up! I then went into the WRC website and after I searched my full name, strangely it returned results of people who made cases against companies who had the same first name as me, but not second! Then only on the 3rd page of results did I find my case. That's a lot of digging (in the right place) that someone would have to do to find me. If it is standard for HR to do a search of someone's name within the WRC website (as well as wherever else), then how many years back do they look?

But you're still shy at addressing my previous question so once again, what 'actions' of mine are implying that there's more going on? It's as if you resent the fact that I beat them, and think I didn't deserve it. You just didn't like reading me acknowledge that it wasn't that bad a job and yet I still took a case against them in spite of that... is that it?

ozmo

>How Can I Shame My Company More Now That I've Beat Them Via the WRC?

You sound like you still have friends there - I wouldnt try ruin the companys public reputation on them, thinking you are helping them.

Rosalinda Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120685589#Comment_120685589

Hold the phone there now. You just said - without reading my case - that I made some statements that are simply not true! Do tell??

Aside from that, I wasn't necessarily thinking along the lines of going public. But if I were able to lets say email a copy of my case to every staff member of my previous company... I was thinking more something along those lines. Then I know for sure, that out of a few hundred people you'd surely get a few who'd say "if he got it then I'm getting it". That would really fcuk them up. Any lawsuit thing they'd try to bring my direction would only give me satisfaction.

Have you ever heard of the Barbara effect?!

Rosalinda Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120684712#Comment_120684712

Maybe that's true. But if it is, then what's the point in having a union staffer? Maybe it suited the union staffer to say that because it meant less work for him!

Rosalinda Eyes

@3DataModem I'd consider whether I'd want to be drawing attention to this to future employers. 

Really? I'd never have thought of that!

OP, if you repeat the facts only, without saying or implying anything else negative about the company, regarding the winning of the case in social media, especially in fora where the context is right, you could help spread the word. Twitter is a good place. If you wanted you could do a paid promotion of a tweet with relevant hashtags, say a screenshot of the part where you won the case, and form a general thread of tweets about labour law, maybe bringing in other cases. Lots of hashtags.

I’m rather like you, don’t generally let people get away with wrongdoings, as I always feel what has happened me will happened someone else, and we don’t live in a vacuum. But that’s just my personality type, probably better advised for one’s own mental health just to let things go.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686823#Comment_120686823

An employer could technically bring you up using a set of search terms, it’s amazing how one can narrow a search down if you know what you are at. However I don’t know how assiduous various companies / recruiters are at doing that, but just to be aware searches can be quite refined. Somebody else in this sphere could answer that.

I’m a stubborn b0llix, but it didn’t always do me good, I’m at a stage in life I couldn’t care less, but if one is climbing a career ladder I wouldn’t take my own advice. 🤣

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686860#Comment_120686860

Statements like these:

"They were ordered to pay me within 40 days of the published report, and ended up taking 45 days. What I was paid was then taxed, which wouldn't have been taxed if I'd got it first day."

"It wasn't a huge amount of money they were embezzling from me either."

And to send such an email someone would need to breach GDPR laws for you and probably get sacked as a result.

But sense you. welcome a law suit. Go for it, I'm sure the legal profession will be happy to take your money.

Rosalinda Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120687072#Comment_120687072

Well it would be taxed, but I'd have paid less. I forget the exact details. And that's pretty much what embezzlement is... as in I pointed out what they were doing and it continued in spite of them knowing it was my money.

You do realise I'm not with them anymore. How could I get fired if I'm not with them anymore?

I would not be looking to shame them. I would be sending the relevant finding, of the successful portion of the case, to the local union rep. It is their role to take this up (literally what they are paid for)

That way you are not publicly being vindictive and still looking out for your former colleagues

Wanderer2010

Can you not just move on with your life and put it down to a bad experience? You won the case, you were validated in your complaint. Your next company is going to have problems too, as well as the company after that.

All you lose is your money and mental health. These companies couldnt care less about you.

AnRothar

Can you please link the WRC decision?

10pennymixup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686860#Comment_120686860

I've heard of the Streisand effect, is that the same?

Others have advised you to be careful about defamation and they are correct to warn you to take care. In a personal (don't know about a company) defamation, if the other party can prove your actions malicious and that they have suffered loss as a result of those actions then yes you can lose a defamation case, no matter how true the statements made were.

I know this sounds incredible but blame TV shows for people thinking differently.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120687101#Comment_120687101

Five days delay in payment doesn’t impact your tax liability.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120687576#Comment_120687576

Very much so and just because something is correct does not give you the right to use it to deliberately use it to defame someone causing actual financial loss. And even when you do win the court can take the view that it was frivolous behaviour and not award costs.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120687101#Comment_120687101

So now the first statement is not true and the second one is factually incorrect - embezzlement is a criminal offence and you don't get to define it, especially if you start accusing someone of committing it.

timetogo1

I wouldn't bother shaming the company. I'd move on.

But I would send the details of the outcome of the case, what steps you took to take the case and who assisted you to any friends / colleagues that you might have in the company. Up to them to do with that info what they will.

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686860#Comment_120686860

Its the Streisand effect.

A few saying "if he got it I should" might cost them a few quid, but you said its a small amount of money so would they really care? And that is not really "shaming" them BTW. Getting their name in the papers, or sending the document to their customers. Or suppliers. That'll shame them, but also get them to get an injunction out against you.

I think the flush of anger you feel will eventually pass. Do what I did, go work for a competitor and help put them out of business. 😀

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120686860#Comment_120686860

Look Rosalinda. You won and got compensated - isnt that enough. It is a really small world and you really do not want to tar yourself as being a 'problem employee' that no employer wants to hire. You fought your battle and won and well done for that but it would be incredibly stupid to go any further and try and drag other employees into your battle and bitterness. It is very unfair that anyone that brings a case to the WRC could actually be damaging themselves rather than the company they work/worked for but thats the reality. An employee who runs to the WRC with problems previously is not attractive to any potential employer and yes this persons name does tend to get out. Its advisable for your own sake not to go any further with this.

Just move on with your life Rosalinda and dont give your old job another thought.

NewClareman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120688940#Comment_120688940

@op The above advice is spot on, just let it go. Ireland is a very small jobs market and you really don't want to get a reputation as a troublemaker.

Best of luck...

2smiggy

OP sounds like a pain for any employers. If I looked at your CV and checked on past employment, there would be zero chance I would have anything to do with you.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120689275#Comment_120689275

Well these days you don't even need to do a background check yourself. There are plenty of agencies staffed by ex-police and military that do that kind of stuff for a living and they are usually far more detailed than what you'd do yourself and it only costs a couple of hundred Euro.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683208#Comment_120683208

Wow, you're one of those bitter ones aren't you. Rather than the faux apology, you could have just deleted your rude comment before publihing.

Your post was long and uninteresting, so it was easy to miss something you said. Funny when people can't write something to hold everyone's attention and then gets snarky when asked a question.

my advice is to move on. You'll gain nothing good from sticking the boot in. And let's be honest, you wouldn't be doing it for the benefit of your ex-colleagues, because you were pretty clear in how you think of them in your OP. They weren't blessed with your superior intellect.

I've taken an ex-employer to the wrc. It was a single complaint and I won. I did it it for me. I could have convinced a few colleagues to do the same, but I got the result I wanted and anything more would have been spite. I never looked back and I am glad I didn't. Not long after, the company collapsed due to poor management.

Wanderer2010

Move on OP. If you want revenge as the famous saying goes, then dig two graves as you will destroy yourself in the attempt to destroy your workplace, who have likely totally forgotten you. You took an action, you won. Take it for what it was and move forward in your life.

Also, dont ever expect others to behave the way you would like then to. Thats a one way street to disappointment and misery.