Upgrade fuse board

avud

I'm in the process of getting quotes to upgrade an old fuse board mid 1980's with ceramic fuses to a modern board. I've got 2 quotes that vary immensely, €600 and €2000. I'm not an electrician or don't know what's involved but what could be the reason for such a huge difference.

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058298520/upgrade-fuse-board

What works precisely have they quoted for? Without the information it's difficult to compare.

At a guess the €600 is simply for replacement of the existing DB (at a much cheaper price than I would expect), whereas the €2,000 may include an element of necessary remedial works given that this is obviously substantially dated wiring we are dealing with.

JamBur

600 to replace a fuseboard is VERY cheap in my opinion. A bit too cheap. Has he said anything about checking cabling condition? What part of the country?

2000 sounds a lot more in the ballpark

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058298520/upgrade-fuse-board

I definitely think that €600 is too low.

as part of a dB upgrade new mains and earthing and supplementary bonding must be installed

the whole house has to be tested and certified to facilitate esbn connection into the new meter.

it’s possible your installation won’t pass the testing and certification procedures and a notice of potential hazard may be issued and a full Rewire recommended

2011

I had my own distribution board replaced recently. I too that view that when replacing it do everything, really push the boat out. This upgrade included metal enclosure, surge protection, a single mod RCBO per circuit, except for the socket circuits which has a combined RCBO & AFDD per circuit (3 mods wide). All of these components were Hager. Needless to say the materials cost a lot more than €600. If I was paying for the labor I'm sure it would have costed more than €2000. Comparatively small money considering the value of the house.

I decided on this approach (that many would consider OTT, but each to their own) after I watched this excellent presentation from Brendan Dervan. He provides a excellent advice on domestic consumer units about 35 minutes in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b5OPXH0Jjs&t=2450s

I would recommend the "Hager solution", my only complaints would be the very long lead time for some components and the enclosures were poorly designed and made. I had to retap the threads that hold the cover on and replace the screws.

@avud my advice would be to get a detailed quotation, post it here if you have any questions, get it done properly and consider it money well spent. You are investing in your home.

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664799#Comment_120664799

Personally I'd have gone for two mod RCBOs over single, as these break the neutral.

horseman34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664799#Comment_120664799

3 mod wide are you using a 3 or 4 board?

avud

Thanks all for your replies as 2011 commented I need to get a detailed quote to understand exactly what work would be carried out. I'll post any updates on here as suggested. For the record I'm based in Athboy, Meath. Any recommendations regarding electrician is welcome via pm. Appreciate the input all.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664886#Comment_120664886

I used 3 single row boards bolted together as cable length was a concern. I wanted to avoid the joining any cables.

The AFDD RCBO units are 3 mods wide, they requrie a special busbar that has a very long lead time.

2011

This shows the bolting together exercise. A jigsaw was used to provide cut out between enclosures. This cut out can be seen between the 2 enclosures at the bottom of the image.

MarryLurphy

Please show us the finished article .

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664866#Comment_120664866

I would too , but how much 'real world' difference does it make ?

It's better for testing to break both live poles

If there's series RCDs you'd want to break both poles

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665183#Comment_120665183

That’s it

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665190#Comment_120665190

My only concern is if there's a neutral/Earth fault then it will remain in parallel with the rest of the installation, although if everything is RCD protected then this may be less of an issue. Also if something like an EVSE is being supplied then the RCD must break all live conductors, which means all phases and the neutral.

I also find that the single mod Hager RCBOs (which are also single pole) can give strange readings when insulation testing.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665234#Comment_120665234

The EV has a dedicated double pole RCBO.

I agree that breaking 2 poles is superior, but I had to weigh that against the benifit of having additional space for future requirements. I did not want to have to add a 4th enclosure (2 row enclosures not an option). The "higher risk" circuits all have 2 pole protective devices.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665234#Comment_120665234

Ya i was updating my post there before you replied

Personally I would fit DP devices and extend wiring and drop the board

Regulations say otherwise so it's a choice

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665268#Comment_120665268

Dropping the board was not an option due to the location (at the bottom of stairs, people would have been hitting their head off it).

As stated above I accept that double pole is superior but there are other considerations.

There are pros and cons to every decision. Most people think I went OTT. The 12 mod board it replaced was horrendous. Each to their own.

horseman34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665217#Comment_120665217

Can I ask, the uk has hager/fusebox high integrity boards were these not an option or was it purely a cosmetic choice? Just curious. Looks very nice and tidy

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665362#Comment_120665362

Agreed, good job

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120664799#Comment_120664799

Absolute and total overkill here.

That sort of set up is grand if electrics is your passion in life and you can do the work yourself. But the op is not an electrical fanboy. They just want a functioning and safe domestic DB. They are not going to be staring at it on a weekend drooling over top of the range RCBOs.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665410#Comment_120665410

Fair points. I did state in my posts above that most people would consider this approach to be OTT.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665373#Comment_120665373

To be honest I wasn’t aware of these. I contacted Hager directly and following a discussion they sent me various options and I selected the above.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665410#Comment_120665410

It's not really

All 30 mA protection, Arc fault and surge protection . Metal board and DP main isolation would be basic spec if you were doing it yourself

horseman34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665556#Comment_120665556

Doesn't look to over the top alright, did you include any fire suppression tubes?

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665888#Comment_120665888

I would mostly agree, other than your comment about AFDDs. These are far from "basic spec" with a price tag to match. (That said, I've actually had very reasonable quotes on Hager AFDDs where generally this is a brand which is more expensive than competitors - but also has a lie failure rate and backwards compatibility so would generally be my preferred choice.)

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667199#Comment_120667199

AFDD's are expensive and are not mandatory. Therefore, I can understand people for not proceeding with these.

However, as most homes are full of expensive sensitive electronics and surge protection is cheap I can't think of a strong argument not to install these when proceeding with consumer unit replacement.

The metal enclosures were not that expensive, but required a lot of work. When several of them are bolted together made for a very heavy assembly and so much more challenging to mount on a wall that has warm board on it. Not mandatory but certainly make the installation far safer, so ultimately worth it (in my opinion). However, for the reasons stated I can understand why someone would be reluctant to proceed with them.

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120667303#Comment_120667303

There's really no excuse not to fit surge protection when replacing a DB in my view. Unless you want to go down the road of a rush assessment with difficult information to ascertain from the DSO etc. But why bother - a Type 2 SPD isn't even that expensive.

I'm all for the metal enclosure, though I wouldn't fit it for many domestic customers unless they requested it or there was good reason to as unfortunately it would probably price you out of the job for many people. But in my opinion it's a superior option.

kirk.

I would have considered relocating the board

I never saw the issue with jointing cables

MercNS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665165#Comment_120665165

Have you ever use a "relocation board"? From the likes of WAGO. Yet to use one myself but this might suit your needs in future 👍

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003729#Comment_122003729

No I haven't, but I know what you are talking about. A very good way of extending cables, but in my case when I consider everything the original location was by far the best.