What should be done with projected €65 billion budget surplus?

Loafing Oaf

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/05/09/cabinet-to-be-briefed-on-proposals-for-using-large-budget-surpluses/

My suggestion, institute a universal basic income. I don't know whether it would be enough on its own or even whether it would all have to be used but IMO it would be a more progressive use than dribbling it away a few billion her and a few billion there. If the intention is to bring in a UBI in the long run anyway, well no better time than now IMO...

MrMusician18

Metro North.

magicbastarder

metro north. proper national parks.

Stop us being the one of the highest indebted countries in the world.

Kintarō Hattori

Maybe start a sovereign wealth fund?

Boggles

Monorail

Atlantic Dawn

An unmanned mission to Rockall.

Strumms

The manner of which the population is skyrocketing I’d say …

metro north / Metrolink get on with it…metro west … post 2035 is only when ‘funding’ is expected to be discussed so 2050 to be operational ? So with some of that cash, start it earlier….

Pay down some national debt.

Invest in capital infrastructure (metro North, luas in Cork, whatever - but something permanent).

Don't just add a tenner to pension and welfare payments (which is probably what will happen).

This surplus won't last forever, it should not be used on any current expenditure at all, just capital and once off spends.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635387#Comment_120635387

Copy what Norway did.

Needless to say it will be blown on salaries here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297761/what-should-be-done-with-projected-65-billion-budget-surplus

Out of curiosity, how much of a weekly payment for UBI would you be thinking?

tesla_newbie

Pay off debt , we may not always have bumper windfalls from corporation tax but will still need to pay the bills and that means being able to borrow

o1s1n

Finally abolish the 'temporary' USC.

Apparently the cost of doing so is  4.4 billion a year. So 65 billion gives us almost 15 years worth of no USC.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635475#Comment_120635475

We are easily able to borrow with our current levels of debt

Squeeonline

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635462#Comment_120635462

That's a funny way to spell "social welfare"

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635481#Comment_120635481

That’s because our deficit is so under control, in lean times ( especially in an open economy like ours ) , that gets put to the test and a country like ours with an enormous sovereign debt, will come under scrutiny In said lean times

Kimbot

Coke and Hookers............ /end thread

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635474#Comment_120635474

I haven't done any research but whatever can be afforded I suppose. I'd be happy with a bit above the current dole but I guess that wouldn't was for people with families etc.

Thelonious Monk

I would do boring stuff like water infrastructure, preparation for climate change and the resource shortages it might bring, anything that helps us function independently as we are so reliant on imports, Metro in Dublin, trams in Cork and Galway. Oh and League of Ireland stadium upgrades galore.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635481#Comment_120635481

Yeah my understanding is national debt is always on the never-never anyway. As long as you're paying off a bit of interest you're fine...

mojesius

Get rid of USC.

Eircom_Sucks

get rid of RTE / TV License

or Put it all on red and let it roll

Podge_irl

Anyway to answer the question - infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure.

That means investing in actually building but also serious investments in TFI, NTA, ABP staffing

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635479#Comment_120635479

Why?

USC means everyone pays something into the pot. 1 million people pay no PAYE so at least this means they pay something.

Abolishing USC means the squeezed middle will be squeezed even more to pay for others.

Pawwed Rig

Build communes all over the country where everyone is paid the same regardless of what they do with their lives.

What could possibly go wrong?

Ten of Swords

Build Thornton Hall prison (at last)

Modernize the defence forces

Abolish USC (this was an election promise many moons ago that got put on hold because of the pandemic)

All those infrastructure projects that got shelved in 2011 (only one I can remember was the interconnector railway tunnel which was supposed to run from the docklands to inchicore)

Tefral

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635549#Comment_120635549

I actually agree with you. Its probably the "fairest" tax in that regard.

I think the money should be spent to make us independent some how of others. Like for example, let Eirgrid (not the ESB) build huge wind farms off our coasts and give us complete Energy independence and even enough to sell back to the likes of France through the interconnector.

Anything that will improve our crap situation in Infrastructure etc. It shouldnt just be dumped into Social Welfare or the HSE etc.

Whatever it is anyway, I have absolutely no faith in the current Government to handle it correctly.

Ten of Swords

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635510#Comment_120635510

Goes without saying 😉

mikep

Energy upgrades to entire housing stock, Upgrade relevant ports for offshore wind requirements, rail/ road infrastructure. Water/wastewater infrastructure to eliminate pollution, Massive tree planting program, particularly in uplands.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635549#Comment_120635549

The 65 billion would cancel out the USC deficit so there would be no difference...?

Why? we'd all have that extra USC money in our pockets.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635359#Comment_120635359

And a bunch of other trains to go with it.

Tefral

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635602#Comment_120635602

And that wouldnt help with the inflation problem we have.

Feisar

Build a modern high rise town in Kildare or Meath with an underground to Dublin.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635613#Comment_120635613

Quiet you with your fiscal responsibility! 😄

Tefral

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635637#Comment_120635637

Ha Ha!!

And id be the first person if i won 10k to go on a holiday rather than pay it off my Mortgage! :-)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635602#Comment_120635602

Have you ever checked how much USC you pay each year compared with income tax? Take out your last payslip and have a look at the figures.

Income tax is easily avoided , USC absolutely cannot be. Its a far fairer and better tax and should be increased if anything, not abolished.

Income tax is what should be changed to put more money back in the pockets of the squeezed middle.

magicbastarder

any new rail lines should also include CPOing land way out past the terminus. it's much cheaper to prepare for a line before the land is swamped by development, than to try to build one across developed land.

amacca

I'll probably be told how wrong I am and a country isn't a household but I'd be happier if a significant chunk want to pay off any expensive national debt we have and then another significant chunk on capital projects that aren't complete rip offs and then if there are any chunks left, start a rainy day fund....then perhaps a chav/scummer with over say 50 convictions (incredibly that would still yield a very respectable number of interns but we could slowly lower the number) forced labour "rehabilitation" camp on one of the less scenic islands with snipers on the mainland paid a handsome bounty for the heads of any absconders.

Obviously I wouldn't get elected or anywhere near the levers of power and not just because of my rehabilitation idea.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635517#Comment_120635517

If UBI was introduced I'd expect tax credits would be removed. The 2 basic tax credits we all get amount to €3,550 in 2023. This means nobody pays income tax on the first €17,750 of their income...not 1 cent.

This works out to €341 of tax free income per week.

My guess on UBI is that it would be cutting our nose off to spite our face because there's no way we'd get a UBI and a tax free allowance of almost €18k per year.

hymenelectra

The same thing that has been done with all the money of this much vaunted economy until now.

^looks around^

Ehh, sweet fa?

Tefral

You know this 65billion does that include for the 13BN+ interest that the Apple Judgement is due in too? (I know Ireland wont actually get all the 13Bn, but we still are due around 8 or 9 i think)

If we owe something like 205Bn in national debt, it would be some job to pay off say 70bn of that between the apple money and the 65Bn from FDI....

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635688#Comment_120635688

I'd be betting that when this song and dance is all done, there'll be a whole lot of that money that never existed in the first place.

Being serious, Ireland is infamous around the world for its crooked numbers.

Gdp, anyone?

Tefral

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635720#Comment_120635720

Isnt it actually in an Escrow account being managed by the NTMA? as in it actually is being monitored....

maccored

build some **** houses

Tefral

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635732#Comment_120635732

That money should come from our central government funds. Which there is a huge fund for already which isnt been met because the reason houses arent built in the volume we need is that theres too many hold ups in the planning system and the viability money wise isnt there....

dmakc

Gardai and prisons

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635730#Comment_120635730

I'll believe it when it materialises.

As said above, over the many years of this barmy economy, I've yet to see anything resembling a benefit.

Housing?

Infrastructure?

Transport?

Civic projects?

Construction?

Staffing?

Barring the fiasco of the most expensive hospital wing in the world that hasn't been completed, I don't see anything whatsoever.

I'm looking at this latest magic money as much the same, "its there, for reals, pinky swear".

Larbre34

People keep forgetting when they suggest current expenditure items like social welfare expansion and universal basic income from the exchequer, that this is not reliable income for the long term.

It is a POSSIBLE future temporary surplus of budgeted income and it can be used in three ways; to pay down debt, to fund capital expenditure or to be banked for future demands, foreseen or unforeseen.

To my mind the hierarchy should be to a) 50% to pay down debt rather than refinance at our current higher rates b) 40% into sovereign reserve and c) 10% capital infrastructure to fund climate transition and promote further sustainable economic growth (rail, energy, broadband, publicly built housing).

I say only 10% for capital because firstly we already have a huge capital fund in Project 2040 and secondly we scarcely have the capacity to build all that and without turning into an inflationary monster.

Besides, basic incomes and the likes are only a disincentive to work and end up in an inflationary spiral to keep up with the additional spend and price increases that it generates. There is more than sufficient of social supports in Ireland without further transferring taxes to unproductive budget headings.

HerrKuehn

Definitely get rid of the temporary USC. The comments regarding everyone pays might make sense if the rates were not 0.5% on the first 12k and 2% on the next 11k. Yea, I suppose technically everyone pays, but lower earners pay practically nothing. I would much rather that than some supposed "better" services, thanks.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635590#Comment_120635590

It really took 25 posts for someone to mention a prison!, even though if we think back across the entire history of the message board, the most frequent consternation has always been over a lack of prison space leading to stupidly lenient sentences which would otherwise be unenforceable.

hymenelectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635770#Comment_120635770

I read a report recently, something to the effect that we are the only country in the world where the majority of the exchequers budget is NOT made up of normal consumerism. Multinational tax receipts constitute the majority of the exchequer.

When you're an exception of the world economy, you should probably start thinking hard.

Watch this all end up a phantasm in the end. "We're actually broke, and it's time to start living within our means".