Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Billboard Chris in Dublin

  • 21-05-2023 8:55pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭


    A man in city centre Dublin who is wearing a sign saying children can't consent to taking hormone blockers has caused a bit of controversy.



    Can children consent to taking hormone blockers? If so should they be allowed to?

    Post edited by Beasty on


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,056 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    No and no.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Billboard Chris is 100% spot on - children should not be taking "puberty blockers", drugs that have never been tested on children long-term.

    As the lady says in that video, so-called "puberty blockers" have only ever been approved in adults - to treat adults with certain diseases, including specific kinds of cancer. They were never tested nor intended to be given to children for any other clinical indication. Therefore the use of these drugs is experimental in nature. Whether people agree with that experimentation is another matter.

    But what we should all agree, is that it's a legitimate debate to be had.

    In the footage, the police officer makes a total fool of himself. Without checking the CCTV footage, he blames Billboard Chris, demanding that he not appear near the store in question (i.e. considered guilty first).

    And all this, without the new "hate speech" legislation having been passed. Which isn't really about hate speech at all, but rather about what some people - a minority of people - consider "offensive speech", which is entirely subjective in nature. Expect the police reports to come flooding in once this legislation passes.

    Imagine how absurd it will become once the legislation is passed? Who wants police resources wasted on cases that involve decent people saying experimental drugs should not be administered to young children? Just because some people, a minority of juvenile adults who have never grown up, claim to be "offended".

    Seriously!?

    This is an obscenity. It's a violation against children and an added obstruction to freedom of speech.

    Long may Billboard Chris persist. I had never heard of him until yesterday, but if he can shine a light on the injustice committed against children, then that can only be considered a good thing - no matter how loud, violent, abusive, aggressive and censorious opposition voices may be.

    And for anyone who may not have heard of Billboard Chris, he was on GB News this evening. A perfectly tame, moderate, sensible voice who is airing legitimate concerns whilst also being respectful to others at the same time.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    I feel the garda was quite clear that he didn't want to arrest him?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    The guard didn't do any such thing. He was given a call to do and he did it to its end. It's not so long ago that people were moaning about gardai not doing calls.

    And kids don't get those blockers here. Non issue.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The "kids" from Ireland attended the now-closed Tavistock Clinic in the UK.

    The reason this clinic was closed was well-established.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭quokula


    Man tries to goad garda into arresting him, fails, then posts a video falsely claiming the garda threatened to arrest him.

    A lot of respect for the way the gard handled it, he had the patience of a saint.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A cursory review of the footage shows that's not what happened.

    You have either deliberately or otherwise misrepresented what happened in the available footage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 717 ✭✭✭I.R.Y.E.D


    Idiots will disagree with you but nothing new there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭Hodger


    This is what the Nhs had to say about puberty blockers.

    " Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria.

    Although GIDS advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be.

    It's also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children's bones. Side effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations.

    From the age of 16, teenagers who've been on hormone blockers for at least 12 months may be given cross-sex hormones, also known as gender-affirming hormones.

    These hormones cause some irreversible changes, such as:

    • breast development (caused by taking oestrogen)
    • breaking or deepening of the voice (caused by taking testosterone)

    Long-term cross-sex hormone treatment may cause temporary or even permanent infertility. "

    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

    When " Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children " how can children be mature enough to consent to make life changing decisions when underage ? as it stands children can,t buy alcohol / cigarettes / gamble or even buy a grand theft auto videogame as age appropriate comes into the equation, in the same way age appropriate comes into the equation about life changing decisions.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Garda lied and told him if someone finds his sign offensive he could be arrested. He then tried to make him leave the area.

    He made a tit of himself and got his bluff called. A clear attempt at police intervention over an opinion but it failed. It’s all there in the video. What was the Garda’s business even speaking to him?

    Do you think children should be given puberty blockers?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 16,119 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Except the parents consented on their behalf. You know that the decisions are made by doctors, parents and the children together. And for occasions where there's a dispute between the parents and children, there's a process for that. The same as the process used for any medical course the child wants to take and a parent doesn't. Most noticeably when a parent refuses to let a child terminate a pregnancy. It's rarely used because 99% of the time when a child attends a doctor the parents agree with the treatment.

    Personally I think the rational way to determine if a child needs any treatment is consultation between doctors, parents and the child. I wouldn't ban a child from receiving all treatment because children can't consent. BTW, most drugs aren't tested on children or pregnant women. They're used off label for treatment. It's standard because of the extra costs involved in getting a drug to market. But if you want to ban all off label treatments, you're going to have a lot of dead children on your hands.

    But I have a feeling you knew all that and you don't care about other off label prescriptions. can you name all other other off label treatments you want to ban? And you don't care about parental consent for other treatments. Do you want to stop parental consent? Do you want to stop teenage girls getting terminations? I'm guessing no and you probably just find trans people icky.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Guards made up call was done after 30 seconds when he was told he wasn’t in the Disney store. End of conversation. Instead he starts asking him about the billboard and what his motivation is.

    Clearly an attempt by the Guard to force him to stop and it failed. The Disney store call was bull.

    And people are ‘moaning’ about Guards not doing anything about actual crime. Instead they’re now the offence police. Do you consider this a good use of police resources?



  • Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Str8outtaWuhan


    This is why the hate crime legislation is so dangerous.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The entire foundation of your argument is based on the idea that these kids were sick and needed medical intervention, which is false, and that puberty blockers with permanent affects is any sort of medical treatment, which it isn’t.

    These decisions were not based on medical care for the children but ideological dogma and virtue signalling.

    Just because parents consent to something doesn’t mean it’s their right to. There are lots of things that should not be forced onto children, regardless of parents consent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,825 ✭✭✭✭gmisk




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,119 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    My entire argument is that doctors, who are specialists in their areas, along with parents and children should make these decisions. That isn't an irrational opinion. Let the people who know the medicine and the children make the decisions. Not someone on the internet without the knowledge.

    BTW, the medical establishment do believe that there are times when puberty blockers should be used. They're already used on children who start puberty too early. I would counter that the people against their use are the ideological ones. they believe that there should be a blanket ban on a treatment independent on the individual circumstance. They're not about nuance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,456 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Attention seeking nutter gets attention from raZZists, racists, far right extremists and conspiracy theorists (sometimes an all-in-one!).

    General populace stays away.

    I do believe you call that a failure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,787 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    He actually said in the video he wanted to be arrested. Quokolas summary is correct.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sorry but I don’t believe just because someone is a doctor they are infallible or even necessarily have good intentions. Those kids weren’t sick and did not need medical intervention and it has nothing to do with starting puberty early.

    What’s your opinion on doctors who carry out genital mutilation? Should I butt out and leave it to the professionals in that subject also?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    Can we not just ignore theses attention seeking aholes

    the like of this fool, the burkes, gemma and the like . its attention they crave and the lack of it will neutralize them


    the appropriate response to some deranged fool standing in the street with a billboard hanging off them is to ignore him or a most a small laugh at his expense and go on about your own day



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Tavistock Clinic and Mermaids in the UK were packed to the rafters with health professionals, yet they had to close on the basis there was a massive lack of safeguarding of children - including with their use of puberty blockers. Mermaids secretly sent children "chest binders" without the consent of parents.

    I don't think people should underestimate the social pressure applied to healthcare professionals here. 35 psychologists alone resigned within 3-years. The Hillary Cass report condemned the clinic and its zealous misuse of the "affirmation" model. Many physicians had to silently speak out as they feared the consequences if their words became public.

    More than 1,000+ families are set to sue the Tavistock clinic on the back of what happened.

    So no, those peddling the myth that it's a question for healthcare professionals are clearly unaware of the evidence to date about what has transpired at these and other clinics.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That’s a fair point. Except someone couldn’t ignore him and called the police on him. When the guard realised he had no good reason to intervene he could have left it at that but he still questioned him for ten minutes and tried to tell him he could be arrested if someone was offended by his sign.

    So now we have a ten minute video and a thread. You’re welcome to leave the thread if you want

    Unless your real motivation is you don’t like a light been shined into this subject



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    But sure we all know the UK is a tory rundown shíthole. What has that got to do with billboard Chris?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Billboard Chris is highlighting the concerns of the evidence to date re: puberty blockers and the affirmation model.

    All the evidence to date from Western clinics shows that this is both hasty and often harmful to the child.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    So nothing to do with Billboard Chris got it.

    Who is he highlighting these concerns to, is there a big issue with puberty blockers on Grafton street?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are asking quite a lot of questions, skirting around the issue - but seem to have no question about the application of puberty blockers in children. And this, despite the fact, that thousands of families are suing clinics in the UK and elsewhere as a direct consequence of the use of puberty blockers in children.

    The fact you'd rather talk about Grafton Street rather than the substantive issue behind his messaging, tells me that you're not interested in seriously engaging with this discussion.

    Be facetious if you wish, but don't pretend this isn't a serious and legitimate discussion, because it is.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And yet someone called the police on him and the police threatened to arrest him if anyone found him offensive. So whose failure is that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    The UK left the EU so what they do medically has little to do with Ireland anymore.

    How may children have been prescribed puberty blockers in Ireland?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Really!?

    Irish doctors were referring children to the Tavistock Clinic in the UK.

    In light of the announcement by the HSE two days ago that it is to continue sending Irish children to the Tavistock GIDS for gender healthcare, despite the overwhelming evidence that this clinic is unsafe, and the decision of the NHS to close it, we request an urgent meeting with you to further discuss the risk this presents to Irish children

    Brexit has nothing to do with this issue.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 16,119 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Female genital mutilation is against the law. It has no benefits at all, Physical or psychological. However the vast majority of Dr's accept that trans people exist, that gender dysphoria is real and that affirmative care is the correct method to use.

    There were problems with tavistock. they were overwhelmed with referrals. So what the government did in the UK was close it and open a load of regional centres which offer the same support. The UK has not banned puberty blockers. the UK has not banned any treatments. So although the anti trans brigade cite Tavistock as a victory, it wasn't. It's actually expanded the availability of treatment.



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement