Is the uneven distribution of farms to children still common place?

chickenfeet2023

A neighbour died recently and I heard that the son got all the farm and the daughter was left with nothing. I know in older days, it was considered the son would carry on the farm and the daughter would be wifed off to someone. Surely this is an outdated view point for modern day and farms should be divided if not evenly but fairly?

phormium

I suppose the problem can be if you divide up a farm too much it becomes unviable as a business, fine if there were other assets like cash etc to pass on but if only the farm it's not always easy to be fair. To preserve the actual working farm you may need to leave it all to one person.

Within past few years a relation of mine left land he owned to sons and nothing to daughter although she had received a site some years earlier, he was old in fairness and his attitude was that her husband would be getting inheritance on his side which would benefit her and of course he assumed his son's wives wouldn't be getting anything on their side either. Very outdated thinking but I suppose it depends on the age group you are dealing with. In this case the land wasn't farmed so kind of irrelevant as to the size of each holding as such, it must likely all be sold anyway for housing.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297250/is-the-uneven-distribution-of-farms-to-children-still-common-place

A son or daughter would have a case if they have not been adequately provided for.

I know a man that lived with his mother and cared for her. She left him the house but one sister is contesting the will.

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297250/is-the-uneven-distribution-of-farms-to-children-still-common-place

You heard? Is the son a farmer? Maybe the daughter got money or a house somewhere that you don't know they had. Maybe they educated the daughter and set her up. Maybe she doesn't want any land. I have six children and I won't split the land. It is supplying me with a good wage for 7/days a week work but if I split it, it would only be hobby farming. Have you more info of your story?

Long go they split the farms evenly between the sons. It happened a million people starved to death and a million immigrated in about seven years

patsy_mccabe

There are 7 different cases that I know off in my area of disputes and legal problems over land and houses. In all of the cases, the problems have been caused my women who never did any of the work on the farms. Before anyone calls me a misogynist, I'm just stating fact.

You can't divide a family farm. This isn't pre-famine Ireland. The only one that wins in these cases are solicitors.

Grueller

A little like Patsy said, I got the family farm here, on a lifetime transfer from the parents. The siblings will get all other assets and any cash left I would assume.

Thing is though, when I was helping my Dad calving cows winter nights, going to the yard for 2-3 hours after the day job most days, spending almost every Saturday helping out, where were my siblings?

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621219#Comment_120621219

Ya they talk about elder abuse , there was many a young fellow kept back by his parents. He was the taxi and their councillor listening to their problems. The girl friend they had were not suitable ect.ect. I know a few that are paying over a grand to nursing homes because they would not sign over the farm. These are extreme but some serve a hard apprenticeship before getting the farm

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621393#Comment_120621393

I know that's not what you are saying Older, but my parents were always more than fair with me that way. They encouraged alternative careers etc and never stck their noses in about girlfriends. I know one place where a nephew went to live with an aunt and uncle I'm a large farm. The uncle was grand and had a progressive outlook but the aunt was a bitter auld pill. She used the place to hold the nephew in check and even broke him and a fiance up. Unfortunately she lived 27 years longer than the uncle and never signed over but left it to a will. The nephew was 62 at the time and his life had been destroyed by the whole thing. He is a pure gent and would have been a fantastic husband and dad but that was prevented by her antics. For a finish she left it to him for his lifetime and even decided who it was to go to after him.

screamer

its common place and totally wrong. Sons farm the farm and daughters are expected to look after the elderly parents and they get nothing or at best a very unequal share. Being honest most of the lads I see left farms around here are the ones who can’t stand on their own two feet, it’s like the parents have to provide for them.

Montage of Feck

Splitting a farm between siblings is just utter stupidity. It never ends well, makes no business sense, never mind the inevitable resentment and bitterness that will ensue.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621615#Comment_120621615

That's as stereotypical as the opening post. I have one son and one daughter. The most active farmer gets the place. Simple as.

accensi0n

Mr. Feg strikes again

screamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621682#Comment_120621682

Well I hope you’ve provision made for your care in your old age and you won’t expect the less active farmer to be the most active care giver and leave them nothing but a “thank you”

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621662#Comment_120621662

not being fair to the others in the family is what causes bitterness and resentment. How about parents instruct to sell it altogether and split the proceeds equally, oh Lord no, better to keep the family farm together and drive the farming family apart. I will never understand the mentality.

roosterman71

Inheritance/signing over land is a bollox in so many cases and it cases ructions galore.

whelan2

I don't see the attraction of "getting the farm" nowadays. Farming is hard work, throw in bitter siblings, who have been treated fairly and only breeze in every now and then to advise what you should be doing for your parents....

blackbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621219#Comment_120621219

Would it not have been fairer to pay you a proper wage for the work you did and then divide the inheritance equally?

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621734#Comment_120621734

A farm now a days is only a means of earning an income it’s not worth its value to the person that has been farming it

i will get the farm here because I am the one that has had the interest and been bound by it since I left school

my siblings never took an interest and there lives haven’t been dictated by it either. 9 -5 jobs, weekends, bank holidays off

when it’s my turn to hand it on the child farming will get it be it my daughter or one of my sons. If they all want to farm I will help them, if no interest in farming I will help them in other areas like my parents did with my siblings

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120620496#Comment_120620496

She can contest it all she wants, she probably won't get anything. Not being adequately provided for doesn't mean not leaving an inheritance for grown independent adults!

Castlekeeper

Not sure what use a farm is to anyone but a farmer, and there's rarely more than one in a family. Its more of a burden on anyone else. Farmers children generally get a good start and are well looked after .

The farmer isn't going to sell it, so apart from having a job out of it along with responsibility, he's not going to benefit from the asset value, and the rest is just resentment and greed.

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621872#Comment_120621872

I know the progressive farmer won't agree and by your post I understand your not a farmer. It's all about the land. Money is only paper and numbers on the screen. The other day I was calving a cow and got a phone call from the play school to see was I going to pick up the youngest. I was half an hour late. I would make the bull McCabe look like a hippy townie.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621734#Comment_120621734

Where did I say I won't look after the other sibling? A farmer can have more assets than agricultural ones.

iniscealtra

Yes, it will generally go to the child interested in farming, oldest gets considered first but if there not interested it will go to a younger siblíng. If the oldest son is interested in farming it will go to him. I know of cases where it has gone to the third son and to the daughter. In those cases the older son/sons were not interested. It avoids arguments mostly. The parents pay for childrens Education, give them a site to build on if they want it or any money left in the bank. The farm is a legacy/business to look after and keep within the family for whoever recieves it. It comes with quite a bit of reaponsibility and the farmer is the one who stays at home. Eldery parents etc.

iniscealtra

Selling the family farm is not acceptable. That would cause trouble. Land is generally only sold when a farmer dies without children and has no close family to take over. Sometimes sites will be sold to put children through education or to enable them to buy land somewhere more convienient. I do know two farmers with addiction problems. One was stopped from selling the land by family. He did try. The other sold some land but is now sober, so no more land is being sold.

iniscealtra

I’d say that’s not what happens usually ‘if they all want to farm i’ll help them’. Oldest male generally gets first dibs over younger siblings. From my experience if more than one are interested in farming the older sibling will get the farm. The younger interested one will get an ag qualification if clever and work for Teagasc or as a vet or in a related field. They might marry someone with land - generally not a plan but does happen. An uncle/relative without children will leave them some land as they have been helping them with farm work. They will save money and buy some land themselves.

Generally unless they marry someone with a decent sized farm the other interested sibling will only have a small amount of land.

Cases that I do know of. Two siblings interested. Went to the older interested sibling. Second interested sibling inherited half his uncles farm in his forties. So he is dabbling whereas his older brother is a full time farmer.

Other case two siblings interested. Second sibling bought land and house that was not advertised from a relative when in his fifties. Both siblings farming but on low incomes. One is still paying back the land he got at a very reasonable price from family.

Other case two siblings interested, one a girl, left to the oldest boy. Girl sibling bought land and old house in thirties. Dabbling as has less land than male sibling.

Land is expensive so unless one inherits a reasonably sized parcel or grows veg on it one will be dabbling part-time. All second siblings above are on small acreages.

I have never seen siblings given the farm in partnership to work together. One person will own it.

iniscealtra

@screamer I would say that’s common with anyone with assets. They make sure the child that can’t look out for themselves is looked after. I’ve come across that in a suburban family when a single parent on a low income was gifted a mortgage free house by her parents. This was not the case for any other sibling. The more capable siblings looked after themselves. It’s often the case I think that those who say they’re all right and do well for themselves receive less inheritance.

Regarding farmers who inherit. Those that l I know are very capable people bar one or two so I wouldn’t say that is the case at all. They have to be interested with a good work ethic from the get go.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621219#Comment_120621219

Farm and dwelling house is being transferred to me at the moment, and any residual assets my my parents will have left will go to my sibling. In fairness to them I've asked my brother a thousand times if he was ok with it and he feels he was well looked after by being allowed the freedom to go off and make his own life elsewhere.. he is of the opinion I made all the sacrifices and have earned the farm and that it would have held him back in life.

iniscealtra

It is also often the case with business families also I’d say. A sibling will often inherit the business i.e. a pub, pharmacy, shop often with a mortgage free house or apartment with responsibilities and the others look after themselves. They do receive other assets but these are often very few and not even close to the value of assets received by inheriting sibling. Inheritance is often not equitable but as the parents / family see as the best option for the continuation of the business or in this case the farm.

saabsaab

As others have said it usually makes no sense to split a farm it won't be viable and all that would happen is that it will be all sold off. The most interested/active should get the land and the others a site/cash if there is any. Farming live isn't as attractive to most now anyway.

To answer the question yes it is still commonplace and for a good reason.

Mooooo

Unless someone is talking about their own situation 90% of what's out there is all hearsay. If possible the discussion should be had as a family before the will comes into play.

What the parents want and need in the future and that all children are on board with the plan.

Unfortunately there are very few farms that can be split and still be viable, so if one sibling is farming fulltime, splitting the farm can take his or her livelihood. Likewise if a discussion is had early enough if more than 1 wants to farm a plan can be put in place to expand or whatever to try and accommodate that.

A lot of circumstances can come into play, someone outside may see one person get the farm and think the rest got nothing when that may not be the case. Farm may come with debt and extra financial responsibilities while others may have been helped in substantial ways.

iniscealtra

In farming families the decision is made by the parents when the children are teenagers generally. Farms are handed over well before any will if there are children.

I have never seen a plan put in place if more than 1 wants to farm as generally the decision is made when the older sibling shows interest as a teenager and they are then given responsibilities and trained up basically. Decision made and the family is aware of this. It can change if said child changes their mind but they generally don’t as they are going to acquire a large asset and a house to live in. The options for a younger interested sibling or girl if boy is interested is possibly inheriting or buying from relatives that don’t have children. Parents don’t split land or give it in partnership. They encourage other children to pursue education or other careers.

The decision is not made as a family including children but by parents on behalf of children. It’s not a round table discussion when people are in their twenties or thirties although it may be mentioned. The decision has been made well before that.

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120623087#Comment_120623087

Not always the case, as I said above. Sometimes sure but not as prevalent anymore

TheChizler

Obvious non farming background here, but does anyone ever convert the farm into a limited company with the only employees being the people actually farming it? Then you can split ownership any number of ways without breaking it up. Maybe you could have a rule you could only sell shares to family.

I imagine it's more admin than normal and I have no idea how variable salaries or shareholder AGMs would go but maybe it happens? Probably wouldn't be seen as viable.

Cushtie

There are 6 children in our family. Oldest son, not the oldest child was always the one going to get the farm. Small farm by today's standards. He showed the interest and put in the work from a very early age. When I was off playing sport and chasin girls he was working away farming. The rest of us have been looked after with sites or a helping hand getting in the housing ladder. Farm has been transferred and he lives at home with elderly parents. House will pass to him when they pass on. Running joke in the family that what's left, if anything, will go to the 5 grandchildren.

Thinking of others I know in the area, I can think of loads where it wasn't the first born son who got the farm. It was the son who showed the most interest.

I do know in one case, where the eldest was a daughter, had great interest in farming, but the farm went to the only son. He was the youngest of 5. So I think there is a thing about it passing to a son alright, not necessarily the eldest son.

iniscealtra

Not a bad idea in some situations @TheChizler It would also create more on farm enterprise and diversification.

Again is it viable? Plus more people get involved when you go down another generation. If a farmer has two children - maybe ok but if he had seven what happens when those seven kids have children. If they have 14 children between them it is then between 14 people and becomes unviable.

If one person inherits they leave it to one child and so on and on down the line. One boss, one decision maker, no arguments.

It’s usually left to one person so that there are no arguments. Other family members accept parents decision as the inheriting member will have been seen as the farmer from teenage years and have the interest. Any money in the parents bank acc will go to siblings who did not inherit generally in the will but farm will have been handed over years before.

If farmer has no children the farm will be left in the will.

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120622772#Comment_120622772

In the case of the farmer with addiction problems being stopped from selling the land perhaps the addiction was a factor.

The family may not have wanted them to have more funds to feed the addiction.

In most cases if you own an asset you can sell it. However often times land is left to someone who wants to farm it and won't want to sell it. A farm is like any other business. How many family run shops do you see sold.

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120623134#Comment_120623134

Good idea in theory but reality is at best a farm would pay 1 employee and in a lot of cases it doesn't.

It would be a recipe for disaster as now instead of 1 person getting the farm and managing how they see fit they now do all the work and have to get agreement from the shareholders to make any major decisions. Even smaller decisions could have to be answered for when the company doesn't make money

Deeec

Im the daughter of a farmer - although my brother will get the biggest share Im happy with what I will inherit. I am being looked after.

I have always done the paperwork and financials for the farm. This is an important role that is often overlooked. Im sure neighbours and onlookers will say I had no interest in the farm over the years but I do have a big part to play in doing the ever growing paperwork associated with the farm. This role is also time consuming.

Also I have a female cousin who is in her 50s. She was the one who stayed at home to look after her disabled mother. Her brother inherited farm and farmhouse ( its in the farmyard). Her mother is now dead and she has to move out of the house. She now finds herself in her 50's, she never married or had a serious relationship because of caring for her mother. She now finds herself with nothing which is unfair.

What Im saying I suppose is that there is lots of roles played in a farming family but often the one that is seen doing the manual labour on the farm is the favoured. Im not saying thats wrong but there are circumstances where other siblings should be looked after some way and thats not always the case.

K.G.

There s a balance between the commercial viability of the farm and fairness and the investment of the children in the farm.no 2 cases are the same and can be very difficult to tease out

iniscealtra

In that case your cousin should have a right of residence in the house until she dies. I assume that the house and farm were handed over before the parents died so it’s in her brother’s name.

She should also be given the option of a site on which to build a house and see if she can get a mortgage from the council for low income earners.

She needs to have a chat with her brother if he’s reasonable.

@Deeec

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120623330#Comment_120623330

No farm wasnt transferred before the mother died due to her being sick years. Will was made before the father died 30 years ago. The mother should have really being in a nursing home years ago but my cousin did her brother a huge favour by looking after the mother at home and keeping the farm away from the clutches of the fair deal scheme. They always got on well and she was shocked when she was told to find somewhere else to live as the eldest nephew wanted to move into the house. I think she now just wants to get away from the house as she no longer feels its her home. Its just very sad that he seems to have no recognition that she gave up her life to care for the mother.

I think she should at least get a site or some money in recognition to the role she played looking after the mum. Nursing home care would have cost a fortune if that route had of been taken originally and no doubt the brother would be in a completely different financial situation now if that had been done.

iniscealtra

The brother sounds like a ***te. Someone should have a word with him.

If he inherited everything his mother’s care should have been his reaponsibility. That’s how I would look at it.

@Deeec

iniscealtra

That’s a bizarre response. Feel free to disagree if you like or take part in the disscussion. If you prefer insults ……. @White Clover

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120623411#Comment_120623411

I've an uncle inherited my mother's home place. It was still my mother and her sisters looked after her mother in her latter years. A selfish man but in fairness the family has moved on but it was annoying at the time

older by the day

For the crack try this statement.

The farm should not be signed over untill they are married. So you can check out the partner.

Land is very valuable. One bad argument could half the asset that took generations to build.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120620496#Comment_120620496

Adult children have no absolute right to inherit anything from their parent's estate if their deceased parent left a valid will.

While parents are obliged to provide adequately for minors, they are no longer obliged to provide for children once they reach adulthood.

At that stage, parents can will their property to whomever they choose, and exclude whomever they choose.

It may not be fair, but it is what it is.

Anyone throwing money at solicitors to contest a valid will is most likely throwing their money away.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621961#Comment_120621961

I would not know the legalities of it. I just know the son. He lived with the mother and another sister and cared for the mother who was ill in her last few years. There are other sisters and one has started legal action for a share of the property.

My own father inherited his father's house. His is the only son of 6.He sold the house and split it 6 ways.

Ten Pin

Seems Adriana Acosta Cortez has moved on from generating Irish Times articles to starting threads on boards

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120623570#Comment_120623570

All I know is that the mother had alzheimers and maybe that was part of the argument. The son was very stressed about it so I didn't go into it with him. I always remember my own father telling us wills and inheritances divide families.

I had a friend in this situation once (eta- though not from a farming family).

She lived at home with her parents, all her life (never married). She retired from her job in her mid 50s due to ill health. 3 siblings, all married with kids of their own.

She cared for both her elderly parents until they died, within a year of each other (cancer, in both cases).

The parents had willed the house to her as they considered their other children set up in life, with homes and families of their own. They did leave them some cash via an insurance policy.

One sister was furious and demanded her "full inheritance". She wanted to house sold, which would effectively have left my friend homeless, as she wouldn't have qualified for a mortgage for anywhere else.

In the end it was settled by my friend (supported by her other two siblings) making a will that upon her death, the house would be sold and divided between all her siblings children and she got to remain in her home for the rest of her life. She died about 10 years later. I don't know what happened after that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120623721#Comment_120623721

Very likely that the sister is attempting to make a case on the grounds that the will was not valid, so.

This highlights how important it is that parents make wills while their children are young, and revisit them at various times during the various stages of their life.

Made my first will when I was 27!

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621845#Comment_120621845

Spot on. I know I was lucky in one sense, the parents were worried that the farm might cause a row and divide the siblings but they knew/acknowledged that I'd done the work over the years and put my own money in at times. They'll end up benefitting with cash + other assets etc. The wife was fairly vocal with me on who got the better deal in her opinion......

I'd one brother I thought might want a cut at it but he'd be happy to come and give a dig out when it suited him then leave the wet dark winter feeding to myself. If there was a likely hood that the farm be divided, it would have killed me but I'd have walked away and see it remain as one block.