Light sentence for 5 false allegations

...Ghost...

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/0517/1384177-sonya-egan/

This yoke ruined 5 peoples lives with allegations of rape and gets only 4 years behind bars. What's worse is she is already serving time for harrassment.

How do the authorities fail to connect the dots with these absolute psychopaths? One allegation, we take on-board and investigate. Two allegations, wow she must be really unlucky, or there's more to it. Three allegations? WTF....get the boat. This one made at least 5 allegations and investigations were carried out despite an obvious pattern emerging. Even when vindicated, victims of false allegations never get back to normal. They lose friends, sometimes families break up. Often their jobs or careers get destroyed and the accuser rarely gets more than a warning a slap on the wrist.

While jail time here is given, is it really enough after the damage she done to so many people. including real victims of rape?

TheValeyard

It's a step in the right direction. What would you say is the proper sentence?

4-6 seems appropriate. And I agree with ya OP, false allegations can ruin lives too.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058296865/light-sentence-for-5-false-allegations

This one made at least 5 allegations and investigations were carried out despite an obvious pattern emerging

If investigations were not carried out they never would have been able to prove they were false accusations. I'm not entirely sure what you are suggesting as the alternative?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609535#Comment_120609535

I don't know. I would say the sentence is probably appropriate for 1 false allegation, but not 5. Closer to 10 years for the number of allegations I would think. Looks like more details are to follow, so we might get a better picture of what happened.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058296865/light-sentence-for-5-false-allegations

That's not necessarily the end, they can attempt to sue her for damages, holding up her court conviction as the evidence.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609614#Comment_120609614

Quite simple really. The chances of more than 2 separate people over a period of time raping the same woman are absolutely tiny. The Gardai would have been aware of all the allegations, but it seems they ploughed ahead as normal, ruining lives unnecessarily. We don't have enough information yet, so will wait for more to come out.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609631#Comment_120609631

Yeah they could, but I don't think that happens often in Ireland. Usually the victim just wants to move on and have nothing to do with the perpetrator. Also these psychopaths tend to have nothing to sue for. The few cases I have seen were in the UK and USA and the perpetrators were almost always trailer trash.

Jequ0n

False allegations should 100% be treated more harshly than they are.

But it’s a sad day when you can’t formulate an opinion without labelling someone with a diagnosis just because you felt like it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609645#Comment_120609645

I am far from convinced that the chances of someone being raped twice are "tiny" but happy to see anything to the contrary. Do you think the Guards should not investigate something if they think the chances of it being true are small?

There are levels here, and I would say its more at the DPP level to decide on these things, but the Guards absolutely should investigate every potential crime reported to them. Again, if they didn't investigate it they wouldn't have been able to prove the allegations were false.

Former Former Former

That's an incredibly lenient sentence. Four years means she's out in two. And assuming it's running concurrently with the sentence she's already serving, it's even lighter.

It's very hard to square that with the judge's comment that the victim impact statements were "the most harrowing" she has ever read".

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609690#Comment_120609690

Read again what I said. "more than twice". Being raped by 2 different people, unconnected at 2 different times (different dates) is highly unlikely, but is possible. For it to happen more than twice is a tiny chance.

In the event a person makes more than 2 complaints in such circumstances, the approach taken by the Gardai should be very, very cautious. It might help to prevent seeing stuff like this:

"One victim was accused of rape and sexual abuse. A letter of complaint was sent to his employer, to An Garda Síochána and to the Minister for Health. While formal investigations were taking place, he had to stand aside. His reputation was ruined. It effectively ended his whole career."

Unless you think it's OK to ruin someones life without considering the probability that the accuser of person number 3, 4, 5 or more is a liar?

greencap

Names should be kept anonymous until theres a conviction. Its the only way.

Alex Salmond beat something like 12 cases which at one point were shown to have evidence of a conspiracy, he might have cleared his name in court but he still has the stigma. It was a clear weaponization of social stigma for political ends. Most of the liars involved faced no consequences afaik.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609679#Comment_120609679

I called her a psychopath and a liar. She is both.

Her solicitor:

"He said he was entering a "formal retraction" on behalf of his client who accepted that there was "no factual basis to her allegations".

He said his client had a history of telling "tall stories" dating back over 20 years.

He submitted a psychological report, where Egan was diagnosed with a borderline personality disorder and described as a compulsive liar."

Psychopath = a person affected by chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour.

I would say she fits that description very well.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609875#Comment_120609875

No, that’s not a definition of a psychopath.

You are even quoting the apparently diagnosed disorder (bpd) which clashes with your claim.

Either way she needs a proper deterrent and no slap on the wrist.

Egan had pleaded guilty in February to eight counts of making false statements and six counts of making false reports against six men and three women on various dates between 2016 and 2021.

Jaysus

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609908#Comment_120609908

That is literally the definition in the Oxford dictionary.

And RoyalSociety.org says:

What defines someone as a psychopath?

Psychopathy is characterised by an extreme lack of empathy. Psychopaths may also be manipulative, charming and exploitative, and behave in an impulsive and risky manner. They may lack conscience or guilt, and refuse to accept responsibility for their actions.

Do you not think Egan meets this criteria? One must lack empathy to accuse and ruin the lives of at least 5 people with her lies. She exploited the Gardai and social services using her gender and claims of rape for her own gains. It was definitely bold and risky to make so many false claims. She didn't bother facing those she accused, or stand trial in person, or by video link, so she did not take any responsibility for her actions. Even the Judge criticised her for her manipulative ways, citing Egan being on hunger strike in prison. I don't see how she is not a psychopath. Having a bpd does not rule her out.

walshb

Absolute rotten to the core that woman. What a pathetic sentence. Should have gotten 12-15 years!!!

you’d really have to wonder how this nut job was able to wreak such havoc based off utter lies..

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609825#Comment_120609825

The "letter of complaint" was presumably not sent by the Guards, so now we are talking about how employers treat these allegations which is a minefield. But the gardai obviously at that stage have to investigate the matter and it would never have been proven that the allegations were false if they hadn't. I'm genuinely not sure what else you expect them to do?

I completely agree that he has suffered and she was rightly been jailed for the offence. I can also agree that the sentence is on the light side.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610005#Comment_120610005

No, I think it is regrettable how frequently labels and diagnoses are thrown around just because someone read a nicely fitting article.

A lot of people do this sort of **** for different reasons.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610082#Comment_120610082

I'll say this; there are way worse names and labels I could use as a description of such an evil, horrible person. Your concern about mis-labelling her is puzzling when considering the damage she has caused. Victims of such crimes often end up taking their own lives, such is the impact of that sort of accusation.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609781#Comment_120609781

The judges BS was just for effect and to appease the victims and their families. no good in spouting all that unless it’s backed up with a suitable sentence, it wasn’t of course. As always…. The wellbeing of the perpetrator is on a par with the wellbeing of the victims and society. Never mind that it’s probably a priority over ours..

7 years would I’m thinking have been more in line with the crimes committed whilst not being considered harsh. Such crimes can and do have such serious and long last implications for the victims. But hey… her mintil hilth and all that bs….must be considered….

id say in about 20 years you’ll kill somebody and get less then 15…

JP Liz V1

Judge Staines jailed her for a total of six years with the last two years suspended

I suppose 4 years is something but I agree she should get more

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610230#Comment_120610230

I’ve been accused of a serious enough crime I had not committed, so I know what it feels like. Nothing happened to the person who had accused me btw. I am pretty sure she was nuts but I sure won’t be applying labels because I am not qualified to.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610309#Comment_120610309

Unless the accusations was of sexual assault, it just doesn't compare. Rape and Paedophilia are the worst crimes to be falsely accused of. Egan made both accusations against some of her victims. I sympathise with you having been falsely accused of anything and I don't mean to diminish how that felt or how it impacted you, but unless it was one of the two things mentioned, it's not on the same level.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610341#Comment_120610341

It was serious enough, and I won’t elaborate. I don’t think there is any merit in nitpicking.

It doesn’t change the fact that there is no ground to be calling the person in this case a psychopath.

delboythedub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609631#Comment_120609631

make sure she has money etc before trying to sue her

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609535#Comment_120609535

My personal view is that the sentence for a false report of rape should be similar to the sentence for committing the crime.

I don't think 4 to 6 years is appropriate. I think it's too lenient.

Over 60% of rape sentences are for 10 years or more. I think the penalty for falsely accusing someone of rape should be the same as the sentence for rape. It's no little lie to tell. Being falsely accused of rape is a horrendous thing to happen.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/rape-sentences-become-more-severe-as-bankruptcy-and-asylum-cases-fall-1.4310652

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610392#Comment_120610392

I don't expect you to elaborate and I believe it was serious. It still wouldn't come close to being accused of sexual assault, or pedophilia.

As I have said and proved on thread, there are both grounds and cause to label that horrible woman a psychopath. This is about the kindest label she deserves. She intentionally destroyed peoples lives....good people who served their communities and who worked in child protection. What she did was targeted, manipulative and evil.

Her sentence is way too light. We don't even know if it will be absorbed into the prison term she is already serving for harassment.

Another article says there were 9 victims. The other victims were accused of other things, which ended their careers. The lunatic even chanced her ar to get on Prime Time to have her lies spread to a wider audience. Maybe a life sentence in a padded cell would serve her and the whole of society better.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612398#Comment_120612398

They are headline sentences.

She received 6 years, 2 suspended for guilty plea and on condition she attends court appointed treatment when she gets released. If she doesn't she goes back in, probably best for society at large that she does seek treatment. Carrot - Stick.

It's hardly a light sentence, especially given some of the ones I have seen lately for literal rape.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612501#Comment_120612501

I agree, sometimes there are shockingly unusually light sentences for rape imposed by the courts but thankfully that isn't the norm. The courts service themselves say that over 60% of sentences are for 10 years or more. Because a sentence of 10 years or more happens in 60% of rape sentences, I disagree that they are headline sentences.

This lady accused more than one person so her sentence should be more severe.

I'll stick to my guns and say that even 4 years with two suspended isn't enough of a deterrent for this kind of behaviour.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612712#Comment_120612712

I disagree that they are headline sentences.

You wouldn't be disagreeing with me you would be disagreeing with the article you posted.

The figures do not include the portions of the sentences that were suspended by judges. Most rape sentences incorporate a suspended element, meaning the rapist usually serves significantly less than the headline sentence

I'll stick to my guns and say that even 4 years with two suspended isn't enough of a deterrent for this kind of behaviour

Reports of fake rape are exceedingly rare. I'm not sure we need to strengthen the deterrence. Even in this incidence it should have been apparent given the history that there was some acute mental illness and the multiple allegations should never have got as far as they did.

Either way. 4 years is a long sentence when you compare like to like sentencing in the past for similar convictions.

BattleCorp

My view is that the sentencing in the past for similar convictions was too lenient. I'd rather she received a 10 year sentence with two years suspended than a 6 year sentence with 2 years suspended.

Anyway, we differ and that's fine.

At least she won't be accusing anybody for the next two or three years at least........apart from maybe the prison guards.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612812#Comment_120612812

I don't think the length of time matters in this case TBH even if it is at the maximum end of the scale for convictions of this type.

The hope is she gets help and becomes better so she no longer is a menace in society when she gets released.

Podge_irl

4 years is a long time to be in prison, I don't think the difference between that and, say, 8 years is going to act as much of an extra deterrent. The length of sentence isn't much of a factor to those who don't think they are going to get caught in the first place - and this is an exceptionally hard crime to prove.

paulmac131

In my opinion it's not enough. There needs to be new legislation drafted to deal with this issue specifically, and introduce minimum mandatory sentences.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613124#Comment_120613124

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613146#Comment_120613146

I don't understand this sort of argument. The length of time matters immensely. Yeah, 4 years is a long time, but 8 or more years is longer. The longer the sentence, the greater the deterrent.

It is a damn hard crime to prove and men falsely accused almost never get justice.

Would you support halving the sentences of all convicted rapists and pedophiles? Because why put them away for 10 years when 5 years is a long time in prison?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613601#Comment_120613601

I doubt this person knew or cared what the headline sentence is.

I wouldn't be overly worried about it TBH, it's an incredibly rare crime.

The substantive issue is the amount of sexual assaults and rapes that go under reported.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613616#Comment_120613616

I doubt most people know what the headline sentence is for either crime. But I suspect Egan knew that even if she was caught, any sentence would be shorter than a rape sentence and she would most likely have her sentence fully suspended. The sheer scale and numbers of victims she left in her trail of destruction is why she got any jail term at all.

I will paste my last paragraph again, as it seems to have been overlooked in your response.

Would you support halving the sentences of all convicted rapists and pedophiles? Because why put them away for 10 years when 5 years is a long time in prison?

For Forks Sake

Have a listen to this interview with Laura O'Connell who was one of the victims in the case that got Sonya Egan her first prison sentence to see what sort of character she (Egan) is.

https://play.acast.com/s/corks-96-fm-opinion-line/im-proud-i-stood-up-to-sonya-egan-harassment

Some details on that case

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/woman-jailed-for-harassing-sinn-fein-td-claims-she-is-victim-of-fake-pregnancy-rumours/90737916.html

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613649#Comment_120613649

You are talking about 2 different crimes and trying to equate the 2.

The facts of reality is for a conviction of this sort 4 years is a long sentence.

That's not my opinion.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613660#Comment_120613660

Irrelevant. What you said was the length of time given to Egan in the case doesn't matter. I say it does matter and the signal it sends out is that it's a small crime to make false rape allegations about people. Sure, you can go out and ruin 9 peoples lives directly and get less than 6 months for each life you destroyed.

4 years is a piddly sentence. It might be relatively long for false allegation cases, but in reality, it's a píss take and these sentences need to see a big increase in time served, considering how damaging they are to the victim and how hard it is to bring them through the courts. The judiciary find excuse after excuse to keep these sorts of cases out of the courts. They fear it will discourage real victims of rape, while completely ignoring the real victims of the false allegation. Here is an example where the Judge refused to take a false allegation any further. Note that the charge would have only been for wasting Garda time.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613616#Comment_120613616

It mightn't be that rare a crime. It's rare that anyone is convicted of it.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613726#Comment_120613726

Irrelevant. What you said was the length of time given to Egan in the case doesn't matter.

Yes. To her or the safety to society unless she attends the court ordered help she clearly needs.

She refused to go to the sentencing hearing and is currently on hunger strike.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613757#Comment_120613757

Citation for claim?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613769#Comment_120613769

Try the one I linked a couple of posts up.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613765#Comment_120613765

Yes, I see. She is the real victim in all of this. Thanks for pointing that out. I must have missed it when I was reading about the lives she destroyed.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613769#Comment_120613769

I said the word might. Didn't state it as a fact.

But now that you mention it, I did a quick Google and it does indeed appear that false allegations do happen such as the one below. And a further Google of 'innocent person jailed for rape' throws up a load of cases where people did time when they were wrongly accused of rape.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-who-claimed-grooming-gang-26468861

Here's one example of a false allegation where someone spent time in jail but the accuser didn't.

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2022/12/16/i-can-never-forgive-her-arab-man-cleared-after-wrongful-conviction-for-rape/

There's a paywall. If you copy the url into archive.is you'll be able to read it.

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609645#Comment_120609645

Actually, some abuse occurs in patterns / clusters, so it is absolutely possible for someone vulnerable to be abused by several different people.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612449#Comment_120612449

Don’t be so sure. Some people are just so nuts that they make up claims that can easily be discounted by a proper medical exam of their alleged injuries.

I agree with you that the sentence should be harsher given the damage she caused.

The only thing I am objecting to is your belief that you can diagnose someone with a disorder after having read a few online articles. She has some professional diagnoses which explain her behaviour so I’m not sure why you are so hellbent on labelling her as anything else.

If it was up to me I’d have preferred her to receive a much higher sentence.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120614133#Comment_120614133

Fair enough. We agree on the more important issue. The light sentence given to her.

Former Former Former

On Prime Time now.

Absolutely terrifying. Any posters defending her or claiming she's some sort of victim need to watch it.

Absolutely no question she has some sort of severe personality disorder.