Can supermarket lock people in

Honorable

My friend was leaving a supermarket and went to go out the wrong door of a supermarket. There is an in door and an out door apparently.

He was not shoplifting had nothing as they didn't have what he wanted. There was a girl coming in so he thought he would rush out when she was coming in. Beeper beeped. The doors locked both the in and out. My friend and two others were locked in for maybe 30 secs and the approaching girl could not get in. A manager appeared quite a way across the shop and the doors opened.

Can they do that? If my friend was stealing, what about the other two girls being locked in as well. My friend has anxiety and didn't like it

mondeoman72

So he tried to exit from a one way entry security door?

jaffa20

It was 30 seconds...

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058296255/can-supermarket-lock-people-in

Clearly they can do it. Just make sure your friend uses the correct entry/exit next time and he shouldn't have any of his anxiety issues.

elperello

What shop was it ?

The short answer is no they can't lock people into their shop.

There could also be a problem with this in the event of a fire or other type of emergency.

phildub

It is technically false imprisonment but shopkeers do this on a daily basis and get away with and I'm not really sure of the precedent they use to justify it.

Honorable

How would they get planning permission with the possibility of locking people in. The girls who were locked in didn't try to go out the wrong way. I expect it is to avoid having a security person

Lewis_Benson

The doors would have defaulted to the closed position.

They aren't actually locked. Your friend could have just pulled them apart to open them, the manager didnt open them, the doors timed out and went back to the normal setting.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590373#Comment_120590373

Planning permission!?

Lol

They weren't locked in.

If your friend truly suffers from anxiety then tell him next time not to run out the "entry" door.

You cannot account for all incidents of stupidity. Sometimes it's up to the stupid to "live and learn"

Honorable

They were locked in. And keep your insulting comments re anxiety stupidity to yourself. This is a legal discussion.

Honorable

From the point of view of the three people they were locked in. They were unable to leave.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590121#Comment_120590121

Sounds like those Aldi and Lidl front doors split separately for entry and exit. I noticed that Lidl is slightly changing the layout. I would only blame the person, not the shop, as it's clearly signed that there's on door for exit and another for entry. What is with this society to always think others are at fault, but not themselves...

Honorable

The girls were going out the right way and couldn't leave

sydthebeat

Are you "locked out" of an elevator while waiting for it arrive?

They weren't locked in. They were inconvenienced for 30 seconds.

I'm not surprised the OP created a new account to troll with this. Mr feg is alive and well.

super_furry

They weren't 'locked in'. They were waiting for the doors to be opened.

L1011

Your friend locked the other two people in, if you want to get down to ridiculous blaming.

Fr Tod Umptious

Why do people always post these types of questions on behalf of their friends?

phormium

Funny as I went out the Entrance door of a supermarket yesterday when someone else was coming in and I heard the beeping and was wondering why it beeped! Before anyone says I should have gone out the Exit door the problem is in Aldi/Lidl anyway to get out you either have to be buying something or manage to get past the queue of people with trolleys, there is no separate exit as such. I didn't see what I wanted and there were big queues at checkouts and they are narrow enough so easier duck out the entrance door when someone is coming in. Don't know if it caused them to lock as I was out and gone!

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058296255/can-supermarket-lock-people-in

It doesn’t sound ideal, although your friend was a significant contributor to the situation in attempting to leave through an incorrect door. The short duration involved would also be a mitigating factor in the shops defence.

Would the arrangement comply with the buildings fire safety certificate as issued by the local authority? Doubtful.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590701#Comment_120590701

It 100% would.

In the case of a fire any mechanical lock is released.

This is not a planning permission / fire regulation / building regulation issue.....

Because it's a total non issue

Oscar_Madison

As this is the legal forum, I guess the question to ask is, could their be any liability or payout?

I think most would agree no, as:

1. the wrong exit was used thus the person majorly contributed to this situation arising
2. the time “detained” was limited
3. no reasonable person could deduce that this incident would lead to long term trauma of any kind

If the detention was for considerably longer, say 1 hour or so, there might well be a case - while the claimant still would have contributed greatly to the situation, the supermarket has a duty of care, even towards silly twats who use the entrance to exit the shop.

A lot of banks have a tow door entry system - for like less than 5 seconds, as you close the first door and before the second door is activated, you’re technically locked in a glass cage or indoor porch- hardly traumatic or life threatening- one would hope there’s a plan B if electricity fails and a customer happens to be in the process of awaiting door 2 to open

sydthebeat

^

Electricity holds the door closed.

So in the event of a loss of electricity, the door is released

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590678#Comment_120590678

This is to prevent easy run away for those who steal. Exit through the opened tills via the queueing people and the exit door. Do you need more specific directions?

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590678#Comment_120590678

Totally agree- it’s likely such an exit is an invitation to shop lifters and that’s why they don’t have them but the German supermarkets are like prisons (ok bit of an exaggeration) compared to say Dunnes or SuperValu - do Aldi or Lidil have self checkouts in any of their stores? I haven’t seen any in the ones I’ve attended?

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590678#Comment_120590678

There is, it's the same exit door everyone else uses. You just have to go through a till to use it.

Those of you clutching your pearls at being "forced" to use a dedicated exit door should probably avoid supermarkets in much of Europe, where not only is that set-up the norm, shoppers are also often required to leave their bags, backpacks etc in lockers before they enter the shopfloor.

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590758#Comment_120590758

How come Dunnes/Tesco/Supervalu survive without that system, you can easily get out without trying to squeeze past queues of people and trolleys, seriously how much stuff gets stolen that way I wonder! Maybe it's a European thing! Is it the middle aisle stuff that's the risk maybe, either way it's awkward when you can't get out any other way than through a packed till queue.

L1011

Most supervalus have one way gates, they just aren't glass double door setups

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590902#Comment_120590902

They probably use more advanced (and more expensive) methods. Don't forget that Lidl and Aldi are the low cost supermarket chains. It is not a European thing, because other European supermarkets, as far I know doesn't have that. It's just their strategy to have this way.

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590762#Comment_120590762

Certainly some Lidl shops do have self-service tills.

freshpopcorn

Did your friend try and push the doors apart?

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590733#Comment_120590733

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590752#Comment_120590752

You are making considerable assumptions, and what you suggest is neither particularly likely, or meet the requirements of Part B of building regulations.

We don’t know the particular arrangement in operation here, but most sliding doors at supermarkets are motorised in both directions and require power to both open and close them in the normal manner. Contrary to what you suggest, an arrangement whereby the door reverts to a fail safe open position on loss of power or malfunction is not typical by any means.

In many cases it is possible to pull the doors apart/open in the event of a sudden power failure, and assuming the doors are unlocked, but few fire authorities would consider that as acceptable on a means of escape. The average individual wouldn’t know how, or otherwise be in a position to open it. An alternative emergency exit with conventional panic hardware would typically be required.

We don’t know is the arrangement interconnected with the fire alarm system to automatically open in the event of alarm activation. While there is a good chance it is, it is unlikely that there is standby power supply to the door to meet the requirements of EN54.

It is also unlikely that any of these impediments to escape are featured on the fire certificate application approved by the local authority at planning stage.

It is further unlikely that the requirements of BS7273 are met. (This is a British Standard but remains the authority on the interfacing of access control systems in buildings in Ireland.

As I said, doubtful that it would meet the relevant regulatory requirements .