Questions about changing from Intercity to Dart at Connolly

AllTheGoodUsernamesWereTaken

I will be commuting into Connolly and then taking the Howth line.

1) Do I need to exit the barriers and then tap on, or is there a Leap card tap point on the Dart platforms?

2) If there is a Leap card tapon point on the Dart Platforms, are they on all the platforms or just one?

3) Do each Dart Line arrive/leave the same platforms each time? Last time I took the Howth line it was on Platform 7, will it always be on Platform 7?

p_haugh

Unfortunately, you'd need to exit via the main barriers, turn right around, and *then* tag on before making your way to the Dart. For whatever reason, IE have been averse to installing a tag-on machine by the dart platforms for those interchanging between Intercity & Dart (and vica-versa).

In terms of the dart platforms, I'm not sure if they always use the same ones.

goingnowhere

Where are you coming from is the first question

You can get a weekly, monthly or annual ticket for any combination of stations, if so you can change without need to go via the barriers. Might require a little negotiation at a staffed booking office.

Howth will be platforms 6/7 (its an island platform so its the same) 99.99% of the time, the first train of the day might start on 4

AllTheGoodUsernamesWereTaken

I will only be going two days per week, so a weekly ticket would be a waste for my case. I'd not be getting the first dart so it seems platform 6/7 would be consistent.

I guess it's the barriers for me. :D

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120583793#Comment_120583793

Can you not get a ticket from your initial departing station, arriving at Howth?

What train are you planning to arrive on?

AllTheGoodUsernamesWereTaken

I'll be arriving on the Sligo-Connolly line.

goingnowhere

You can purchase a ticket from any station to any station, but this requires a staffed booking office. The clerk will likely refuse anyway due poor training

Online will only let you book between intercity stations so it maybe cheaper to split the journey at Connolly and use leap card from there

AllTheGoodUsernamesWereTaken

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587168#Comment_120587168

Yeah that was the plan, since the leap card cost is a lot lower than getting an actual ticket. Thank you for the info.

AngryLips

Northbound darts usually go via platform 7 but I wouldn't rule out the possibility they may use platform 6 or even start at Connolly and leave from platform 4. Main takeaway is to check the boards for the correct platform.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587168#Comment_120587168

I had to go from Drogheda to Maynooth a couple of times last year. You can't get a ticket to Maynooth from the TVMs in Drogheda so on the first occasion I just got a Connolly day return and used my Leap card for the rest, going out of the barriers and straight back in again. On the second I went to the booking office and they were able to do it.

The most amusing experience I had was when I was in Waterford and wanted one of the four day Trekker tickets. The office was closed so I mentioned it to the ticket checker. He told me to get on anyway and they'd sort it out on the train. Came back to me about a half hour into the trip with the ticket, he said he had to call Dublin to issue it because he had never done one before.

briany

A tangential question - I've wondered to myself why you can't just use the Leap on any train journey. What is the big technical impediment to tagging on at Drogheda, tagging off at Maynooth, and having the appropriate fare debited (maybe with a Leap card discount)? Fair enough if you did it on an Intercity train, you might have to get up if sitting in a reserved seat, but other than that, I don't really see the big problem.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661196#Comment_120661196

What is the big technical impediment

Iarnród Eireann being stuck in the dark ages

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661223#Comment_120661223

I thought this might be the kind of reply I'd get, and it wouldn't surprise me if that's part of the reason, but it's hardly as big an undertaking as bringing the DART to Drogheda. The tag points are already installed in most train stations around the country.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661196#Comment_120661196

Does it open a fare-dodging loophole maybe?

e.g., I tag on in Drogheda with €1 balance. I'm now a customer with a valid ticket as far as the system/inspectors are concerned. I tag off in Maynooth (or Tralee even!) which is all part of the Leap zone. The system lets me out but beeps me to remind me I've a negative balance. I bin my leap card.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661196#Comment_120661196

There's been a lot of political talk about Drogheda train fares recently. It seems to me that it's still considered an intercity fare and pressure is mounting to get this changed. A day return on the train is double the price of a return 101 bus and still more expensive than Matthews.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661320#Comment_120661320

In the Drogheda - Maynooth example, I'm not sure what the problem would be if the fare is less than six euro .... I just checked - over 12 euro for a ticket! That's steep...

Anyway, I think this could be amended in the sense that the gate wouldn't let you through if the fare brought you below -5 on the Leap and you'd have to go speak to one of the orange vest men. Iarnród Eireann could launch an information ad campaign to reduce such incidences encouraging passengers to look up the fare before before embarking on a journey. I call it, "Know before you go"....

Flinty997

I assume the system is only configured for certain zones.

At this point they should allow you to use a payment card or phone and do away will all the leap cards completely.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661461#Comment_120661461

Well hasn't that answered your original question of "I've wondered to myself why you can't just use the Leap on any train journey. What is the big technical impediment..............I don't really see the big problem"

Suddenly you are changing the system to give it a max negative balance to make sure an Inter City passenger can't go over the €5 cost of the Leap Card, and whatever re-programming of the system is required for this. And you have committed IR to an ad campaign about this. So it at least moderately problematic.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661381#Comment_120661381

I assume once DART+ kicks into gear and the dart is extended out to Drogheda, all the stations up to Drogheda will be subsumed into the leap card system and the commuter fare structure? Would make zero sense otherwise.

goingnowhere

As stated above Leap card cannot realistically be used as the balance issue comes into play. Leap cards are already in use nationwide for monthly and annual tickets.

You can do what they do in the Netherlands and require a minimum balance of €20 to use the train, thats not workable or acceptable as that would be €50 in the Irish case (Tralee-Dundalk). The system has to assume the worst case journey from a fare perspective.

Contactless doesn't solve the issue either really as you can't support child/student or indeed any concession fares.

The future is account based ticketing, you buy the ticket in an app, you get a QR code. Thats how Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Czechia handle this, it's cheaper and simpler to roll out as there is no expensive at station equipment required. You are inevitably going to be hanging around at the station/stop waiting for the train/bus so use the time to buy a ticket. Monthly/annual tickets would still be smartcard based

Flinty997

I don't think far evasion is enough reason to make the system confusing and complex for everyone else.

I'd lay odds it costs more to do what they are doing than simply have more inspectors checking fares.

TranslatorPS

You can do what they do in the Netherlands and require a minimum balance of €20 to use the train, thats not workable or acceptable as that would be €50 in the Irish case (Tralee-Dundalk). The system has to assume the worst case journey from a fare perspective.

To be honest, the €20 minimum doesn't cover the highest fares in NL anyway – I paid something like €29.80 for Amsterdam Centraal–Groningen a few months ago, and I'd bet there are higher fares possible. So the OV-chipkaart minimum is a reasonable minimum rather than a worst-case-scenario minimum.

(On that topic, I used the NS app for that, so I had a QR code on my phone for a ticket check that never happened anyway. In fact, I did an entire week-long trip from Paris to Kraków via NL, DE, and CZ using purely online tickets with QR codes and the relevant apps and no printing whatsoever. The only paper tickets I had for anything were for Paris city transport, and that's because the NFC feature of the Ile-de-France Mobilite app didn't work properly.)

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665552#Comment_120665552

I don't see that as a valid reason why I can't use my Leap card on a €6 journey from Limerick to Ennis.

feargantae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120665552#Comment_120665552

Im not sure if it's launched yet but in the Netherlands you'll be able to associate your card on Google/Apple Pay to your concession discount. Most people in NL have a personalised Chipkaart with some sort of discount attached.

We could only dream about a system like that here! Tap your phone at the barriers in Heuston and tap out in Tralee....

LXFlyer

Intercity train journeys really don't lend themselves easily to smart card use.

Really, there would need to be a complete revision of the entire Intercity fares matrix and how the fares were calculated in the first place before it could be put in place.

The vast majority of people making Intercity journeys are making return journeys rather than single ones which makes the situation trickier.

Purchasing tickets at the station, 2 x Intercity single fares for virtually any journey are significantly higher than an open return ticket, and a day return ticket is cheaper than an open return. Then you also have promotional off-peak return fares and cheaper tickets restricted to certain trains.

Different fare scales operate on different routes, reflecting the different service levels available on those routes.

I seriously doubt people would prefer to use a smart card for a return journey and find that cheaper return tickets were available?

highdef

I used my standard bank card to tag on and off at the turnstiles when travelling by commuter train in the Malaga region a few weeks. Can it really be THAT difficult to migrate to that system? I very very rarely use the train in Ireland so a LEAP card is of no benefit to me.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120703973#Comment_120703973

I think the archaic Wayfarer machines on the buses are the problem here, they all need to be replaced first.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704010#Comment_120704010

Until those upgrades are carried out, would that stop the implementation of an ATM card/touchless payment system on rail transport.

Regarding upgrading ticket machines on buses, would something like this do the job? Seems to tick the relevant boxes, from my untrained eye: https://transmach.co.uk/wayfarer6.html

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120704216#Comment_120704216

It shouldn't stop the rail network getting an upgrade but since we now have an integrated ticketing system I couldn't see it being rolled out on one mode only. There is a plan to replace the bus ticket machines but it's progressing very slowly.

LXFlyer

The main problem is the back office systems as well as the ticket machines - they all need replacing to cope with this, but this is happening very slowly.

The NTA are only at contractor procurement stage.

AllTheGoodUsernamesWereTaken

The main issue I have is no tag on/off point on the platform, though I get why, it would lead to too many idiots getting locked behind the barriers when trying to leave. It's just frustrating as it means I end up missing the connecting train which is only a few minutes after I arrive, so I have to get the next one. :(

Mairead16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120763914#Comment_120763914

This happened to me the other day but luckily the connecting DART to Howth was a couple of minutes late. I legged it out to the main station and back up to platform 7 and had one minute to spare. Otherwise would have had a 30 min wait till the next one.