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Barristers crying about legal aid fees

  • 10-05-2023 3:14pm
    Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭

    Apparently barristers are not happy about the money they're getting for legal aid. This would seem to run counter to the belief, frequently expressed on Boards - and which I must say I find easy to believe - that one of the reasons why we have such a ludicrously lenient criminal justice system is because the legal profession is rolling in wonga from FLA and it's in their interests to keep even the most violent depraved scummers on the streets racking up convictions in the hundreds.

    Or maybe there's just too many beaks in the trough competing to free the scummers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,481 ✭✭✭✭Boggles

    Both your articles state how much they get paid.

    I am absolutely shocked it's that low.

    At present those practicing in the district court are paid €25.20 for a remand hearing, €50.40 for a plea in mitigation at a sentence hearing and €67.50 where a matter goes to a full trial

    The report highlighted that some barristers earn as little as €25 a day for some criminal cases and Senator Ward said that junior barristers have an especially tough time

  • Registered Users Posts: 81,477 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Like better call Saul. Collecting his public defender cheques at the counter that barely cover Jack. I would have to go back and see how much the clerk paid him

  • Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989

    When the country went bankrupt over the moneylenders the IMF wanted to put manners on the whole legal business but were blocked at every turn

    the whole thing is rotten to the core and will never change

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,521 ✭✭✭Allinall

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne

    Interesting to use the word "crying" here when it seems that you are crying just as hard. Yes — there really is nothing more deplorable than a justice system that ensures that the individual citizen has good legal representation against the infinite resources of the State.

    It's an endless circle of crying on here that one minute the new hate speech bill represents the overreach of the State and the crushing of individual liberties — and the next minute the hard working barristers, who are instrumental to evening the odds between the powerless and the power of the State, are the enemies of the people.

    I work in the legal field myself and I can tell you, if money is your primary motivation the criminal bar is certainly not the place to be going. So the perceptions about lawyers rolling in it relate to a fairly select few when it comes to representing defendants in criminal proceedings.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭bureau2009

    ....... EXCEPT Ireland's very influential legal profession.

  • Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,414 ✭✭✭Ginger83

    Where's the money at so? I recently gave a legal firm €300 and that was just for the consultation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 81,477 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    These reports highlight the top earners, not the bottom earners who are making 25 euro a case, not half a million a case. Failed to report the names of the lowest compensated solicitors.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl

    I'm sorry, do you think these are large numbers for an entire profession?

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl

    I'm not shocked unfortunately. It is not a well paid profession precisely because it is politically unpopular to pay people to defend "criminals".

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl

    The entire point is that the legal aid fees are deeply, deeply below market rates and rely on criminal barristers working on the cheap.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison

    It’s well known in early years earnings are low for newly qualified barristers as they complete their devilling- pretty much working for free for 12-18 months.

    It’s the bar council/law library/ senior barristers themselves who are keeping this slave labour going- they could change if they wanted to because let’s face it, they’re a law onto themselves- but keeping the monopoly within the few suits them just fine.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,570 ✭✭✭10-10-20

    Point being that there is a fair pot of cash out there and it seems that some practices are specialising in FLA cases, hence the lower earners are either picking the poorly paid cases, or aren't competing to the same level.

  • Registered Users Posts: 81,477 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    So you're saying there's a lot of disparity in the profession as the have's beat out the have not's for all the resources and big daddy lawyer bucks is wiping his ass with ribeye steaks and his colleague is trying to keep coins in his washing machine?

    Sounds like the top earners will be needing to take a cut.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Quitelife

    Some of the yarns and excuses that free legal aid solicitors come up with for criminals terrorising the law abiding is scandalous and they should be ashamed of themselves coming out with such rubbish .

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭downtheroad

    Your honour, he was drunk when he committed the heinous crime (his 149th but who's counting?) however, he has brought €4.35 from his son's piggy bank by way of compensation to the person he carried out the crime against. Also his mother was 4 numbers away from winning the lotto jackpot as a teenager. Furthermore he once opened a box of corn flakes and there was no toy inside.

    €25 please.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Count Dracula

    If it was such a doddle and the country is seemingly being held to ransom by the legal profession, why don't you go get your FAE's and join the party?

    Why waste your time cranking your minds out on here .... when you should be down the Death Star sorting your wallet out?

    The fact remains that very few barristers in Ireland are making a decent living - easily one of our most competitive professions. Your success at the bar will rely heavily on, contacts initially.. and if you can manoeuvre yourself through that quagmire, you better be super efficient and fundamentally successful , that part is a son of a bitch to master and that is before you get the respect of your peers and the judges? In short it is a very difficult and precarious profession, they deserve every penny.

    The law is a real thing. Everyone breaks it, the law is like an asshole, everyone **** through it and thinks there shít don't stink. Well it does crankers, and one day I promise you , I don't know when, or why, or how... but you will be kicking, crying and screaming for a barrister.

    The reason we have lots of criminals on our streets is because we have a deficiency in prison space and indeed staff to manage any ad hoc solutions to our crime problem. It has nothing to do with the barristers or solicitors who worked in the Criminal justice System. Frankly if you don't recognise or understand that fact you live in a very gormless existence, most likely flooded with drivel and lazy intuition, neither will serve you. There is no shiny cabal of smart ass chunts, getting rich swanning around Dublin 1 freeing criminals, if you think there is you haven't a clue, you really don't.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,794 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke

    €25 a case, I've seen some of them go through 10 cases in a couple of hours, €250 if they were all FLA, more if not. Full sentencing hearings can be as short as 30 min, €67. Something isn't... adding up.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl

    You think that zero work is done outside of the court?

    €250 for a couple hours work when you are self employed and potentially have staff and expenses to pay out of it is not particularly amazing.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭downtheroad

    FAEs are accounting exams mate, wouldn't be much use.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,794 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke

    Jaysus, I dunno. The only ones working in Waterford court daily for about 8 years didn't seem to be struggling, and had great social lives. Laughing at us with their revolving door state sponsored clients. Cry me a river for those who defend the indefensible.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Quitelife

    If the government have excess money they should be building more prisons to rid our towns and cities of the scumm destroying our country and laughing at the law abiding !

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,526 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor

    Aye. Pair of lowlife filth jailed yesterday in Cork for robbing a 93 year old woman's handbag and giving her life changing injuries in the process. 313 convictions between them IIRC - think of that the next time these defence barrister parasites are looking for more taxpayer cash. In this case they only pled guilty on the day of the case when the old woman turned up in court - doubtless the impoverished legal eagles paid to defend them by many posters in this site had them told to stay schtum in case the old bird kicked the bucket before the trial.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl

    Barristers are obliged to defend their clients to the best of their ability. If you are ever in the unfortunate position of being wrongly accused of a crime I assume you don't want your barrister to look at you and say "nah, you're a piece of **** and you deserve it" and not try very hard to defend you. It is not their job to decide judgement.

    This is the equivalent of expecting doctors to decide who deserves treatment.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,585 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios

    The legal fraternity are a large part of the reason that insurance industry is in the toilet, charging in the region of 40% of the settlement as their fee. My heart bleeds.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl

    This has absolutely nothing to do with legal aid cases.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Count Dracula

    There is no legal aid involved in insurance cases.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Everlong1

    That would be the same justice system which ensures that a good many of our finest individual citizens are walking the streets free and clear with 150 plus convictions, looking for their next opportunity to rape and rob and confident that they won't have to worry about paying for their defence as the free legal aid tap is always on for them.