Has the USA gone totally crazy?

Long Sean Silver

I just saw a statistic for 2023. 201 mass shootings in the first 127 days of this year. That's 1.58 per day.

Even by US standards that's seems beyond crazy to me. Contrast with Serbia who had 2 mass shootings and immediately take action to curb gun ownership, the USA seems to be caught in a downward spiral of gun insanity where the "debate" now is about "Good guys with guns Vs Bad guys with guns".

Will they ever learn?

wotzgoingon

They took er jerbs.

Big Gerry

America has gone to sh!t I blame Joe Biden.

Strumms

Estimated I’m reading to be 120.5 civilian firearms per 100 people in the USA.

no surprise really.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568150#Comment_120568150

It has been going to **** for decades. They had an absolutely cracking good run of it from WWII up until the 90's and even if standards of living in the late 40s were worse then now they were improving rapidly and that's what matters. 9/11 is what I reckon firmly put them on the downward path they have been on ever since as it ushered in a new wave of xenophobia and small-mindedness.

For years they could wear the corruption and crony capitalism because things were still improving for the ordinary lad on the street but they reached the limit of that growth. They can't pull enough material goods out of the ground to give the school shooting generation anywhere near the prosperity the previous generations had. The optimism is gone from that country and the American dream is long dead.

kneemos

The second amendment puts the right to bear arms in their constitution,any attempt to remove it now would likely be seen by the rednecks as an attack on the country.

Bit of a self perpetuating problem in America,the more guns there are the more guns you need for protection,though they do seem to have a particular problem with mass shootings.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568220#Comment_120568220

I’d say that any presidential candidate who in the lead up to an election, called the second amendment and it’s appropriateness into question would just be taken out with a rifle…

the gun control bill which to even the most half witted heretic must have seemed like common sense only passed with ok a bit of bipartisan support, but with just 14 Republicans joining Democrats in the House to approve the bill by….234 to 193 votes…. Not exactly a landslide…or close to one.

Piskin

American Society has been in decline since the Vietnam War. The optimism is gone and communal life is no more. 9-11 Scam really affected the people badly.

Quantum Erasure

they need to redefine 'mass shootings',

mass shooting, also called active shooter incident, as defined by the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), an event in which one or more individuals are “actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area. Implicit in this definition is the shooter’s use of a firearm.” The FBI has not set a minimum number of casualties to qualify an event as a mass shooting, but U.S. statute (the Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012) defines a “mass killing” as “3 or more killings in a single incident.” For the purposes of this article, both sets of criteria will be applied to the term mass shooting, with the distinction that the shooter or shooters are not included in any fatality statistics.

up it to at least 5 kills, see the numbers plummet... (well, maybe not plummet, but at least decline for a while)

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568296#Comment_120568296

Massaging the statistics to conceal the problem is not the same thing as solving it. It's pretty much the opposite, in fact.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568296#Comment_120568296

So what you think they should just add two more people to the meaning so they can statisticly have a lower number of mass shootings? The problem is the amount of guns in the country and changing the stasticts will not solve it people will still die. I think 3 or more is right.

Oh and yes America is gone to sh1t and the American dream too. I do not envy anyone living there. However what I did not yesterday on the news is that the 4 states along Canadas border in the North middle seem to be the safest. No idea which these states are but not one of them had a mass shooting.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058295599/has-the-usa-gone-totally-crazy

It's always been crazy. It's a nation that was built on the slaughter of a people that was already living there by Europeans. Later it became a melting pot of some of the worst that humanity has to offer. The fact that they off each other in record numbers should come as no surprise really. There is a deep psychosis that runs through the American psyche. One which is violent through and through and one that also boasts a truly appalling political situation that's a quagmire of pettiness manufactured to appeal to most childish of minds. A situation that has only become worse even during my limited time on the Earth.

And yet, it's the one country on the planet that was (ostensibly at least) designed with the pursuit of happiness baked into its very being and it has a genuinely agreeable constitution...for the most part anyway.

Unfortunately that "happiness" comes at very costly prices. And one of those prices is people dying at the end of a gun. Talking about this earlier with real people in the real world, I mentioned that it was hard to give a shit any more and I've been feeling that way for some time. They won't make any real efforts to even minimise this issue or mitigate it. So why should the world outside waste their sympathy on a nation that would rather use gun control as a cheap political football rather than an important societal issue that should be tackled in a reasonable manner?

As for "will they ever learn", well they have learned. They've learned the hard way. The problem is there's an element over there that doesn't give a fuck, and until the day arrives where they are directly impacted by this issue they'll continue to not give a fuck.

Grayson

We could do an experiment where every single country, except one, implements firearms controls. Then we can see if one of them has loads more firearms deaths than the others.

Oh wait....

Lewis_Benson

It's been fucked for a long time now.

Trump did it no favours at all either.

Time for a big shift in their political system, bring In fresh young blood and get rid of all the old men, we could do the Same here in fact.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568361#Comment_120568361

I think the biggest thing they need is media regulation. Make sure that they are given unbiased facts. I know people have problems with RTE and BBC and say there's bias, but compared to US news, they're amazing.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568361#Comment_120568361

Republican states won't vote for anyone that supports gun control. I'd hate to see the shitfest if any Government did impose any meaningful gun control.

screamer

No, it’s always been ****. A country founded on violence, taking what you want and of course slavery, sure what could have gone right?

ancapailldorcha

Of course not. It's just an extremely individualistic society where nobody gives a sh*t about anyone else. The response to every school shooting perfectly encapsulates this. Immediately, the usual bad actors poison the well and cynically use the still warm bodies as political props and masses of people welcome this.

I think they'll endure as long as enough people are comfortable. Once that point is crossed, they're screwed.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568371#Comment_120568371

The people that have problems with the likes of RTE and BBC news are exactly the type that would flock to the something like Fox News. They're only interested in hearing their preconceived notions and opinions repeated back to them. They are interested only in their own biases, and when that isn't being fed to them, they'll scream like children.

For what it's worth, I happen to find RTE news to be pretty straightforward and bereft of the opinion based efforts of most so called "news". And it's the news programme I'm talking about here. I generally don't watch much else on TV. RTE News generally just delivers headlines about events that happen and opinion is usually parked at the door. This most definitely isn't the case with the likes of US (so called) news media, especially in the case of the news channels, who usually are trying to appeal to a particular section of audience. Of course we are now seeing efforts to repeat that nonsense across the pond as well with the likes of GB News, which is little more than trash propaganda aimed at the simple minded.

eggy81

There will be a war there yet. Or a split. The ununited states of America.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120568445#Comment_120568445

Murdoch has a lot to answer for.

The UK has similar discrepancies in their print media. But thankfully, with the exception of GB news, the broadcast media is a lot better.

We're at the stage where people in the US can't agree on basic facts. And politicians go along with it.

whisky_galore

It has always been crazy, just different kinds of crazy from time to time.

Lionel Fusco

IMO America is a doomed country slowly descending towards an inevitable civil war and what a nasty bloody civil war it will be considering the amount of weaponry at the disposal of anyone who wants one.

godtabh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058295599/has-the-usa-gone-totally-crazy

Just learned that my sister in law was there the day before the Allen shooting. Crazy to think what might have happened.

Sgt Hartman

It's a mess of a country from what I can see. Serious divisions along the lines of wealth class and race. They seem to be totally obsessed about race over there.

Also, It calls itself a democracy but no other candidates stand a chance up against the ridiculous might of the two main political parties and the billion dollar corporations that support them. It's practically an extreme capitalist state.

Certain conservative areas, especially in the deep south have a terrifying level of ignorance and narrow minded thinking. The NRA is a super powerful lobby group made up largely of people of this mindset so sadly I can't see there being proper gun control laws any time soon.

Run Forest Run

Gun control gets the headlines, but in reality the nation is extremely violent and full of very angry disenfranchised people.

Guns of course make very convenient tools if you're motivated to harm people. But I'm convinced that America would still be a very violent place even without the proliferation of guns.

There will come a time when people will be able to create cheap untraceable guns on 3D printers etc... (in fact crude examples are already possible now) so even if you could get everyone to agree on strict gun control, it would never work in the long run. People will always find a way to get what they need, just like with drugs or anything else really.

This is why the debates around gun control are a bit pointless really. It obfuscates the real root of the problem, and allows people to avoid asking the serious questions about what is going wrong in society to create so many unhappy people who want to lash out at society and harm innocent people. Without really digging deep into these questions, and figuring out how to stop people from getting to that point... good luck even attempting to stop any of this.

And as we can see in Serbia and elsewhere, trends that become big in the US very often migrate to many other places. Making everything about the tool these people are using, is a cop out... and of course it's heavily motivated by political and ideological differences. Making the whole thing into an ideological tribal conflict in the US, has done absolutely nothing to help resolve the problem. In fact, it has made it a whole lot worse.

Long Sean Silver

America enjoyed a golden age after WW2. the 50s, 60s, & 70s were particularly good as their standard of living was improving almost constantly, and they could (justifiably) laud it over the rest of the planet. that has now ended and other countries have caught up and in some cases overtaken them. this has rankled them, and the far-right and lone nutjobs have turned that sense of anger and perceived failure into violence.

as a kid i recall seeing Yanks come back to "the old country". we would literally look up to them. the were well-dressed, tall, prosperous, open and generous. we were waiting at our gate for our flight last year, when an incoming flight from Ohio (i think) disembarked. as they walked past, they looked so down at heel, dowdy, unfashionable, overweight, unfit. my kids starting making fun of them. i had to tell them to shush. i actually felt kinda sorry for them in a funny way.

add to the mix serious but untreated mental health issues, a gun obsessed culture, a nation that was built on violence (genocide & slavery), an abundance of useless politicians who seem to be either afraid of or are in hock with the gun lobby, and you got a ticking time bomb.

Strumms

It can’t be underestimated how great a damage it seems that Trumps presidency did to the US domestically, not just internationally.

A completely divisive, shît stirring, malevolent, childish ghoul.

he enabled and validated a lot of these crazies.

using varied questionable language to encourage violence against counter demonstrators at rallies… and varying other language of stoking the embers, fanning flames and indeed on the other hand being very silent when his own crowd could not be bothered playing by the rules…

BorneTobyWilde

I think the issue with the whole planet, not just the USA is there are simply too many people on it to please and feed. US population has doubled since the 50's , that's an extra 150m to keep happy, and another 150m with their rights to bear arms

Long Sean Silver

Sandy Hook was what really did it for me. i felt, naively as it now appears, that after those 7 and 8 year old kids were blasted to eternity, things would surely change. i looked at their photos, their innocent little faces. i was wrong. it's beyond psychosis.

Manic Moran

It is my perception that the spree shootings are happening with increased regularity, and if so, it's not because of the firearms, it's because of the apparent increase in appeal in conducting the act. It is unlikely a coincidence that Serbia came across the news feed with two shootings one right after the other last week. Had the first not happened to global news releases, would we have seen the second?

It seems to me that the coverage we are giving these incidents is beginning to 'normalise' them to the people who might be considering it and removing any last social barriers to their actions or in some cases (such as those with political agenda) the publicity may even be encouraging them. We obviously cannot clamp down on the news reporting when these things happen, they are newsworthy events and we have freedom of press. But there may be a way of dampening the news that it reduces the sociological effects which are resulting.

Most importantly, though, we have to get back to the idea of 'respect for life', which seems to be dropping more and more from the US consciousness.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058295599/has-the-usa-gone-totally-crazy

It's absolutely beyond comprehension how much it's escalating. We were talking about Columbine for a very long time after that happened in '99, it had a huge media presence, films created, lots of deep analysis...

It's almost become part and parcel of US culture now. I always wonder do many Americans worry about it on a day to day basis? Not sure how I'd feel about living in a country where I could be blown away just going about my business. It's such a surreal concept.

BrianD3

The US homicide rate is lower than it was in the 1970s-1990s period so they must have been even crazier then. Also the gun laws are obviously far from the only issue they have, there are the major problems with poverty and inequality which itself is probably a contributor to gun violence and homicide.

Also, road deaths are much higher than deaths from homicide and much higher than road deaths in most European countries. Ireland 2.9 road deaths per 100k population, US 12.9 per 100k. Yet there isn't a thread every second day on this website about the tens of thousands killed on US roads every year.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570505#Comment_120570505

Road deaths are accidents. Mass shootings are not. They're not comparable really.

Mass shootings are deliberate acts of murder and they definitely should be discussed.

Madeleine Birchfield

These crime waves happen every 50-60 years in the United States.

rob316

I heard of some mass shooting on the radio the other day on the news, it was the last event mentioned, 10 dead in texas, 5 year old the youngest.

Even the irish media barely deems it newsworthy its such a regular occurence.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570540#Comment_120570540

Road collisions are not referred to as accidents anymore, they may not be "deliberate" but very often extreme recklessness is involved. Thousands of innocent lives are lost every year yet seemingly nobody on boards.ie is interested.

If you live in the US you are more likely to be killed on the roads than murdered.

If you live in a decent area and are not involved in criminality, you are much more likely to be killed on the road than murdered.

And being murdered in a mass shooting is uncommon as only a minority of murders are the result of mass shootings.

Excluding suicides, about 6000 people have been killed in gun violence so far this year in the US, 248 of those were killed in mass shootings.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570630#Comment_120570630

i think you'll find it has been covered by our media. just now Sky News covered both the shootings in Texas. But i do take your point, sadly it is such a regular occurrence, many people simply accept it as just another crazy American with a gun shooting his fellow citizens.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570710#Comment_120570710

I still don't see why road traffic accidents being higher than mass shootings means we cant discuss mass shootings.

Heart disease is the biggest killer in the US. Using your logic we should only be discussing heart disease on boards.ie and nothing else.

10000maniacs

A huge proportion of old towns in the Southern states are becoming ghost towns and those folks just make their way to the cities. Some of them don't leave their screwed up attitudes behind, load up with weaponry and when it all becomes too overwhelming, mow down the people who gave them a hard time in their job or school, or are the wrong colour or religion and anybody else in the vicinity.

The equivalent in Ireland is beating the crap out of somebody because of the lack of firearms.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570710#Comment_120570710

Recklessness is one thing but unless your going out to deliberately kill someone with your vehicle it can not be compared to the deliberate action of mass shooting the public. Every traffic fatality is tragic and needless but mass shootings are senseless.

There is something disturbing that gun laws are more important than someone murdering a 5 year old in a shooting spree with an automatic rifle.

you.me.privateaccount

Is it fair to say I believe Social Media is to blame for a lot of this added to the political divide between far right and left. It's coming to a head, but I feel the worse is still to come.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569682#Comment_120569682

You don't even have to wait for 3D printed guns. Ghost guns are already an issue in America. Buy them unassembled (ghost gun kits) from an online retailer and DIY at home. No background check, untraceable and a growing nightmare for law enforcement.

https://www.bradyunited.org/fact-sheets/what-are-ghost-guns

rob316

The only hope of the US restricting guns is when the democrats have control of the presidency and congress, that hasn't happened in over 10 years I believe.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570736#Comment_120570736

following brian's logic, maybe they should just outlaw cars in the States? or junk food?

steinbock123

I had always intended to drive across the USA when I retired, taking my time , driving through small town America , stopping where the fancy took me. I retire next year and won’t be going next nor near America. Don’t want to get mown down strolling through a mall. 

When Trump was president, I fell into conversation with a young American couple on holiday in the south of France. Mid twenties from Cincinnati, if memory serves. I asked them about the latest mass shooting at the time, saying it could never happen in Ireland. They asked me why not, and when I told them there were no guns generally available in Ireland, they were amazed. He was anti Trump and anti gun. She was pro Trump and owned three guns. She said her father had bought her a gun for her fifth birthday. Her FIFTH birthday!! 

No wonder they’re fupped!!!

you.me.privateaccount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570916#Comment_120570916

To be honest the gun thing does happen here, albeit not that young but we do have numerous gun clubs and people from a young age do go hunting with family and friends. It's fair to say it's well controlled with both having to go through a huge vetting process and be a member of a club.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120570736#Comment_120570736

I didn't say they shouldn't be discussed. The amount of attention they get is disproportionate however, this is due to them being a highly politicised issue and manna from heaven for the media. Like Islamic terror attacks which have not happened as much in recent years, mass shootings are a form of disaster porn that people get great entertainment out of. They also allow boardsies to entertain themselves by arguing with each other as there is always some political, racial or gender angle.

There is one such thread in the CA forum at the moment which ironically, given my comments on road deaths, is about an incident where people were run over at a bus stop with this being alleged to be a case of racist vehicular homicide..

Anyhow, 248 killed in mass shootings this year in a country of 330 million people and the OP wonders if that means the US has gone "totally crazy" - not really.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571038#Comment_120571038

Mass shootings get a particular amount of media attention because of how heinous a crime they are. It's not all just about fatality numbers, it's about intent as well. This is people purposefully going out to murder as many people as they can. It's arguably one of the worst (if not the worst) crime imaginable.

The amount of attention is definitely not disproportionate and I would be worried it it is ever seen as disproportionate as it means we've accepted it as normal.

I’d be in no hurry to go back there. Be cool to see Montana, The Dakotas etc, but the society itself is crap.

Guns, enormous income inequality, that dreadful fake service culture for tips thing, mostly appalling food, mental health epidemic, having to use their airports to get around, that whopping and hollering thing their sports fans do, those stupid khaki coloured chinos that everyone seems to wear etc.

Long Sean Silver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571159#Comment_120571159

i spent 2 summers there as a student on a J1 and then on a holiday visa. i travelled around quite a bit, saw quite a bit. but i would definitely not encourage my kids to go there now. thankfully they have expressed no interest in the place. sad i know, but that's just how we perceive the "greatest country on earth".