Civil servants to call for four-day working week

Brussels Sprout

The Association of Higher Civil and Public Servants (AHCPS) will hear calls today for staff in Government departments to be moved to a four-day working week.

The AHCPS will meet in Dublin for its annual delegate conference this afternoon and will debate a number of motions on the four-day week.

Delegates will ask the union to support the Irish Congress of Trade Union's campaign for a four-day week and to seek the introduction of 'Work Condensing Programmes' in all Government departments and offices.

source

What do you reckon? Could our famously efficient civil servants cram their many duties into 4 days instead of 5?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058295274/civil-servants-to-call-for-four-day-working-week

I wouldn't see why not. For a lot of places, Fridays is a low output day anyway with holidays etc. A lot of companies I know do half days on Fridays (finish at 12/12:30/1pm and don't allow meetings on that day

Allinall

I would happily work an extra 1.5 -2 hours per day to have every Friday or Monday off.

ancapailldorcha

A great idea. Hopefully, it spreads beyond the civil service.

Manach

TBF - Other sectors such as the IT have also had interest in such a proposal. So long as the agreed contracted working hours are kept, it should not matter if the working week is 4 or 5 days and with the former might provide better work/life balance.

Drifter100

So what happens with public facing offices where services are provided

I`m thinking Intreo offices,Housing not to mention the knock on teachers nurses Gardai etc etc etc. It would be never ending

Bad idea, they have enough holidays and sick leave. Let them off into the private sector to face reality

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557625#Comment_120557625

It's the way of the future for everyone IMO. I'd say future generations will look back at us aghast at the idea that we spent so many days of the week in work.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557654#Comment_120557654

Sure the likes of revenue are only open short hours anyway.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058295274/civil-servants-to-call-for-four-day-working-week

This is a joke right?

Eircom_Sucks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557664#Comment_120557664

they already do feck all

Iggy1986

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557755#Comment_120557755

Revenue are very efficient

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557744#Comment_120557744

Why would it be a joke?

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557802#Comment_120557802

Maybe because services are already so poor, this is unlikely to make them better. I agree it would make employees work life balance better, but the reason they have jobs is to provide a service to the public. A lot of places only have customer facing from 10:30-12 and 2-4.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557654#Comment_120557654

I suppose they'd make sure these positions are covered through rotas etc.

We may all balk at the idea of our waster civil servants having more time off, but really this should be spreading beyond government employees. Same goes for retail etc. We all managed when shops weren't open on Sundays before. The world could do with slowing down.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557816#Comment_120557816

That has nothing to do with the hours people work, or the number of days in the week they work.

Completely separate issue.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557654#Comment_120557654

In my company we need to be working 5 days a week, but we have arranged a pattern where not wveryone has to be in on a Monday, Friday or Wednesday, wo the existing staff can cover these days and everyone taking off whichever one of those days suits them.

It just required a bit of jogging around which days people could have as their day off. Was relatively easy at the end of the day.

Im sure anywhere that needs to be staffed 5 days a week could do the same.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557802#Comment_120557802

I've worked at Govt. Departments where the hours were 9am - 12 with a 45mins break in that time, 2 hours for lunch and 2pm to 4pm, the offices were half occupied most of the time, some of the CS would sit in the office chatting until 6 or 7pm and claim the hours so they could take Friday's off anyway, so now they want to reduce those hours even more!?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557856#Comment_120557856

Nobody is talking about reducing hours, from what I can see.

Shift patterns would be changed to have the same overall number of hours worked, but would allow each individual to complete their hours in 4 days, rather than 5.

The other issues you mentioned are completely separate, and obviously need to be addressed.

onrail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557654#Comment_120557654

In a way, would it not be better for public facing services to operate later in the evenings to allow those working 9-5 to have easier access?

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557873#Comment_120557873

You understand the public perception that many CS dept's and staff are underworked as it is, as well as many services being so poor, now we're and seeing their demands for a 4 day week and it doesn't look good?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557883#Comment_120557883

Who cares what it looks like?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557883#Comment_120557883

Exactly why it will never happen in the CS unless it becomes mainstream in the private sector. Everyone already thinks they're absolutely useless.

RMDrive

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557873#Comment_120557873

The Four Day Week Ireland campaign is specifically about reduced hours; it's not about doing 39 hours in 4 days, it's about a ~32 hour week.

Kimbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557654#Comment_120557654

They put it in place that regardless of how the 4 day a week is done someone has to cover for each of the 5 days so lets say I want monday off then I cover the friday when someone else wants that off its not rocket science, places can still open on all 5 days and cover even more hours if they wanted to open for longer so services should not be impacted.

SEPT 23 1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557798#Comment_120557798

The ones working for the state that take your money usually are but when you try and get your money back through services in the state it reverts back to 3rd world level

strange isn’t it

Trigger Happy

The 4 day week will definitely happen. I bet it will happen on the very day I retire.

tesla_newbie

Most do fcuk all anyway so it won’t make much difference

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557654#Comment_120557654

Rosters.

It's not like this isn't already being done where staff are on worksharing patterns.

Also, Local Authorities who deal with housing, Teachers, Nurses, Garda etc are not Civil Servants.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557856#Comment_120557856

Would be interested to hear where you worked and when.

Flexi days I am pretty sure are limited to 12 (or 18?) a year and one (or 1.5) per period. They are also only available at a couple of lower grades CO, EO (maybe HEO). Sounds like a failure or management rather than what the CS is like as a whole.

Mellor

If people want to work 32 hours a week, they'll be paid 80% of their current salary. A

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557654#Comment_120557654

Many of those services already do longer shifts in less days.

Working 40 hours over 4 days isn't getting a holiday. Working 32 hours for 80% pay also isn't a holiday.

I'm honestly baffled that anyone with a full time job wouldn't understand how hours per week / pro-rata time works

magicbastarder

anyone who has ever worked in a large organisation that has been around a long time will know they calcify. i work for a large multinational and it's a classic 'the system evolves to protect itself' example.

everything is bogged down in process and paperwork, rather than about getting the job done.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557654#Comment_120557654

I am guessing they be open still the days there open but some people be working Friday and others Monday.

Looks like the OP is now getting the rage against the civil service but it may come

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058295274/civil-servants-to-call-for-four-day-working-week

No problem at all, many could fit in what they achieve in two days.

RedXIV

I've a lot of family in the civil service and it's pretty clear things having been shaking up for a few years now. My mother retired about 2 years ago and she is aghast at how poorly my siblings are treated in their roles, but that is definitely due to how cushy she had it for years, rather than any particularly harsh treatment they get in reality.

The key thing here though is that if the civil servants get this, it'll set a very strong precedent for the rest of the country and that should be encouraged massively.

Also I'd echo the ideal here is more to do with the number or hours rather than the number of days, I've seen weeks of my wife working three 13 hour shifts as a nurse, which means she gets 4 days off a week, but she's wrecked for most of those days as a result. Shortening the amount of working hours is definitely the ideal here.

SuperBowserWorld

Ah it depends 😁😁😁

Are people working 9-5 working a lot less than those working 9-6 ?

Also, those who commute long hours are working a lot more.

Also, those who earn more than others are working less.

Also, those who have to keep people alive for a living are working a lot more than those who don't ...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557962#Comment_120557962

Ditto.

In my over 30 years in the civil service, across various departments, at various grades, I have yet the find myself in one of these magical places that allows staff three hours off during the day, only makes you work until 4 o'clock and gives you every friday off on flexi.

Kimbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558047#Comment_120558047

same here, in 22 years I havent come across that yet.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558006#Comment_120558006

If the CS started working 4 days (32 hours? 28 hours (4x7)?) it would have no affect on private companies, you are dreaming if you think it would.

Also, the 13 hour shifts in nursing suit some (my wife is a nurse), you need less childcare, so there are benefits.

Thelonious Monk

Yeah I mean it's not like American multinationals are going to suddenly go to 4 days a week because our civil service did it

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557987#Comment_120557987

Less people on site at specific times means reduced service to the public. Longer queues to the reduced staff as the obvious example.

The idea that you remove staff on given days with no effect on productivity is not true at all.

RedXIV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558054#Comment_120558054

All things being equal, if you've got a young person coming out of school and they have the opportunity to go work 5 days a week in a private company or 4 days a week in the civil service, I suspect you will see some impact on private companies. Perhaps not the big multinationals but they are not the only private companies in Ireland. Civil service is a big employer, if they can switch to this model, it's a viable option for a lot of people who value their time off more than a higher wage. It will have an effect, but I agree it's not going to cause an avalanche of companies to sign up.

the nursing shifts suck for childcare because they are not consistent so we were told to pay 5 days a week anyway, because my wife could be working any day of the week, we couldn't pay for 3 days and pick and choose which they were every time there was a new roster :D I ended up doing far more childcare in my 5 day a week, well past 40 hour job in a multinational while WFH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558054#Comment_120558054

For the vast majority of the Civil Service, the full time working hours are 35 hours per week (excluding lunch break).

Also, with a large number of CS now working from home at least 1 or more days per week, there are significant savings to be made in heating and energy costs in closing non-public facing buildings some days of the week.

This is going to happen irrespective of any reduction in working days for staff. My current dept has multiple buildings across Dublin and the rest of the country. It is currenty considering how they can reduce the number of days all our Dublin buildings are open, due to low occupancy rates as staff are WFH. Those who wish to work 5 days a week from the office will be able to use whichever building is open on a particular day.

By the way, this call to reduce the working week to a four day week is not meant purely for the civil service.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0501/1380009-four-day-week/

This will be the second pilot in Ireland that I am aware of.

Furze99

Typically work 60 hour weeks here....

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558142#Comment_120558142

I will believe the reductions in cost when I see it to be perfectly honest. The state sector are not really known for efficiency.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/10m-of-taxpayers-money-could-be-lost-because-opw-officials-mismeasured-leased-floorspace-pac/40475655.html

OPW mismeasured floor space.

recyclops

For a lot of people cramming 37 or so hours into 4 days is not really what they want and productivity drops, the negative impact is that if its not across the board and those working on a 4 day week demand Monday or Friday off it can lead to those who it doesn't suit being unable to take annual leave due to capacity especially in roles that are customer facing.

I know in a place I worked in before it was offered but the day off was rolling for everyone to limit that impact, what tended to happen was those on a 4 day would after a few months go off it as they didn't like the longer days.

AyeGer

I am fully behind this idea. We work to live not live to work. So long as people are working efficiently then great.

More free time for people to spend on their interests and hobbies would be better for mental health and the economy.

Baba Yaga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557875#Comment_120557875

eh...? make it handy for the public to get things done...? cant see that happening...

wench

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558185#Comment_120558185

According to that article, they got a great bargain.

The OPW entered into a 25-year lease at Miesian Plaza in 2017 on an annual rent of €10 subject to a review ever five years.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558062#Comment_120558062

It's a step in the right direction towards a four day week for everyone. If folks in the private sector see civil servants on a four day week it might motivate them to start petitioning and working towards a similar outcome for themselves.

Some might even leave American multinationals for a four day week in the civil service, which could make those companies start to rethink their policies.

It's all baby steps really. Look into the history of our current two day weekend, it wasn't always the case (and is actually far more of a modern invention than you might think)

Mrs OBumble

Many civil servants are already on Shorter Working Week, and do 4 or 3 days per week, for 80 or 60% of salary.

Moving others to shorter hours with no loss of salary would not be fair to them.

fits

I couldn’t do my current workload over four days. I’m fairly stretched as it is.

bank holidays make a huge difference to my life though. A day for kids activities, a day for family and a day to do the house and garden jobs and life admin.

id love to move to a four day week but it doesn’t seem to happen much in my corner of the public sector. We are super busy.